tording99Z28

iTrader: (3)

So I am picking up my 99 Z28 in the morning. It is an A4 and black on black.
It already has a corsa catback and a granatelli Lid on it. What are the first 3 things I should to this car as far as mods go. I eventually want to do a cam obviously but are there any smaller things I should do first? As far as I know it has the stock exhaust manifolds so I am guessing some LT headers would be one of the next things to do. What do you all suggest?

nofearracing28

iTrader: (7)

Stall would be the first thing that you would want to do. Along with a trans cooler. Then suspension.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

for an auto u definitely need a stall, tranny cooler. i would definitely do some longtube headers for first mods.

z28bryan02

i would go with what was stated above, and be sure to post some pics when you get the Z

1_bad_TA

iTrader: (6)

Long tubes with true duals or and offroad y, stall w/trans cooler, gear, suspension

kevin's_00ss

what he said, oh and after that a good dyno tune

waldershrek

iTrader: (1)

Headers, LCA's, Torque Arm and SFC's. You'll be amazed with the new power and the fact you can actually hook!

ChocoTaco369

I would definitely rethink the addition of a stall right away. You need to ask yourself what you want out of your car. Do you want straight performance? Or do you want an affordable daily driver with some kick?

I can tell you right now, a stall is not in my immediate future. Putting a stall in a stock transmission may not be what you're looking for. Adding a stall is very pricey. A good stall is ~$700, install is $300, then with the addition of a tranny cooler and a shift kit (which is highly recommended), you're looking at a $1300 bill...all in a STOCK 4L60E. The 4L60E's are NOT known for their durability, and an aftermarket stall will significantly lower the lifespan of your transmission. There is no doubt about that. They're a lot harder on the internals. It's your call if you want to spend $1300 on a mod that's going to kill your transmission faster, all for a ~.4 reduction in your ET. Once the tranny goes, you're going to look at a ~$2000 rebuild.

I decided to go gears instead. Gears will give your car much better acceleration throughout the powerband, especially down low. A stall on the other hand will make you very sluggish down low. Gears will hurt your highway mpg while a stall will hurt your city mpg. I haven't seen a decrease in my mpg from my gear increase. FWIW, gears help extend the life of your transmission by taking stress off of it (gears help you accelerate more easily).

Again, I'd SERIOUSLY consider if a stall is a smart mod for you. There's a lot of hype about a stall on this site - o many people a stall when they've never had one or even driven a car with one, and so many others complain about the durability of the 4L60E, then throw a stall in their bone stock tranny. It's not a smart mod by any means, and unless you're going to be going to the track a lot, it's a pointless mod. If you're going to be cruising on the street on street tires, it's not going to help you all that much. It may actually hurt you because traction will be a luxury you'll no longer have.

Tell us what you want out of your car. I'd start simple - FTRA (Fast Toys Ram Air kit), a ported throttle body and an LS6 intake. These mods CAN'T MISS - they're absolutely necessary and have no downsides to the install unlike the stall. You'll also be able to buy and install all these parts for cheaper than a stall.

Calico

iTrader: (6)

I agree with above. SFC's are a good all around mod.

darrensls1

That's your choice but for the majority of people a stall is a great investment for the street or the strip.

No more pricey then a good set of headers, cam, true duals, ect. But if one was so inclined they could buy a TCI or Fuddle for $500, tranny cooler for $75 and install for $275. I paid $40 for PCM tuning and in the end the bill was $890 out the door.

I disagree. It's not the stall that lowers the lifespan. The bigger stalls create more heat which can be countered by a transmission cooler. So what does lower the lifespan? Generally it's when torque management gets deleted and line preasure gets raised. So how can we counter this? Install a Transgo shiftkit and make minimal (if any) changes to TM or line preasure.

If you are talking about a heads/cam or N20 car then yes a rebuild will be 2K. But you can buy a stage 2 4L60E that can take massive bolt on street abuse for less then that. Especially now while Performabuilt is having a 20% off sale.

And the ET reduction with traction is a minimum of .4 while I have seen as much as .7 in some cases. But it's not just the ET reduction. The stall also reduces or even eliminates the dead spot. Spirited driving is way more fun with a stall.

Gears are nice but like you said they increase the highway MPG and they don't give you the same ET gains or feel that a stall does. As for city MPG it depends on how big a stall you get. A 3000 stall is very MPG friendly where a 4000 stall is not.

But if you buy a car like an F-body for gas mileage then perhaps you missed the sales on Honda Civics

I own a stall. I have had this one for over two years and I love it. I also have driven a friends car with a TCI 3000. I drove my car for two years without a stall so I have experience on both sides of the fence. My opinion?

Get a stall ASAP! If you get a tranny cooler and shift kit then the transmission should do well. I don't even have a shift kit and mine has taken thousands of street miles and a few hundred quarter mile passes.

Pointless mod for a street car? I completely disagree. You feel a seat of the pants difference from rolling starts that gears can not duplicate. It's a whole new world of powerband that I never had when I was stock. I used to punch it from 35 and think "what a slug". Now I think "damn right baby!". And going a little sideways from a 20 mph punch is kind of fun too

I wouldn't EVER want to go back to a stock stall again. The key is picking the right size. If it's a street only car then 3000-3400 with a lower STR is a good choice. If it's street/strip and you want some kick then 3400-3800 with a bigger STR will do real nice. And for those who want ***** to the wall track monster/weekend warrior then a 4000-4400 is the way to go.

I look at it like this. If 20 people endorse something and only 1 doesn't then there must be a reason for that. And believe me when I say that I know the reason 20 people endorse it

Your tranny will go eventually. I would rather have a ton of fun in the meantime and then when the time comes buy a fully built lvl 2, 3 or 4 4l60e from a sponsor and enjoy the stronger tranny with a stall even longer.

ChocoTaco369

I disagree. For the majority of people, a stall comes with more downsides than upsides. Most people daily drive their car. Many f-bodies are still completely unmodded, and most don't get any further than a lid and a catback. MOST people want more performance without compromises. A lid, an FTRA, a ported throttle body, headers and a catback don't have any compromises. Aside from added noise, there are no downsides, and for most, the added noise isn't a downside. A stall comes with huge downsides. Those downsides are decreased driveability, traction issues that become dangerous in wet weather, significantly decreased transmission life that can result in a $2,000 rebuild and many require tuning.

And when you cheap out with a cheap converter and tune, the downsides become even more significant. You'll wind up with a looser converter leading to more driveability issues, and when you buy a cheapo converter like a Fuddle, you're also sacrificing durability. I've never seen a thread about a stock torque converter breaking, but I've seen several about Fuddles.

Obviously you don't know a thing about torque multiplication. Stall converters greatly increase the amount of torque the internals of the transmission has to support. This increase of torque that the transmission must deal with greatly increases the wear of internals. The biggest, best tranny cooler in the industry won't help your tranny here.

And yet we have even more durability issues.

Don't forget to add $200-$300 for shipping and installation costs. You gotta get someone to put the transmission for you. 95% of the people on this site don't have the ability to do this.

And now you need to spend $500 on a set of drag radials. And then the 10-bolt breaks. It never ends with a stall. That's why it's such a poor first mod for a newbie.

I disagree. A stall ruins the torquey low end feel of the motor. You have to rev high to get the power. I got gears because they make the car feel more powerful throughout the entire RPM range, not just up top. I also got gears because I do 50/50 driving and there has been no loss of fuel economy. A stall would have hurt me more.

This is the worst argument of them all. I hate this argument. People buy f-bodys because you get the performance of a V8 and still pull a combined 22 mpg. If F-bodys got 10 mpg, no one would buy them. This is such a BS argument. People buy V8 cars that they can afford. Very few people can afford an F-body that gets 10 mpg as a daily driver.

Again, a stall is a good mod if performance is what you're after, but if you're a newbie, it's a terrible beginner's mod. Realize what you want out of your car. A stall may not be the mod for you if driveability is a huge issue. Besides, if you pick a stall first and realize you want to go a different route in your car, you may have to buy another. A stall needs to support other mods, and if you buy the wrong one now, you just wasted $1,000. Start out with the simple, cheap intake/exhaust mods that have no downsides. Then, when you know what the future is for your automobile, buy the stall of your choice if you choose to.

darrensls1

That is not exactly accurate. If you put a PT4000 stall in a bolt on car then yes you get some down sides. But put a 3000 with a 2.0 STR in and you get NOTHING but upsides.

Streetable as far as little or no looseness? Check
Traction beyond say a dig to 10 mph? Check
Minimal stress on transmission with a tranny cooler? Check
Faster quarter mile? Check
Much better dead spot? Check
Better roll racing due to higher shift extension? Check

Get my point?

I have a TCI 3500. Over two years and the converter is still flawless. With my 3.23's I don't even notice the converter much unless I'm getting on it. It's really not that loose. But you wouldn't know since you want to avoid aftermarket converters.

Once again you need to consider the converter size and STR. The stock STR is 1.6 so going to 2.0 STR isn't going to grenade your transmission. Mine is 2.5 and I have no issues on a stock transmission. The biggest tranny cooler with a shift kit most certainly will help prolong the life of a 4L60E. Do a search in the automatic transmission section if you don't believe me. It's been covered many times before.

That is neither here nor there. No transmission will last forever. Picking the right stall with the right cooler and the right shift kit will keep the 4L60E alive just about as long as a stock one would last under a stock converter. Always assuming the same number of wot runs, city miles, highway miles, ect. You would still pay for someone the same price to replace a transmission whether the converter was stock, 3000, 3500, ect.

You only need drag radials if you want to get traction at the track. Otherwise a 3000 stall with a 2.0 STR is perfectly fine on the street with regular street tires. 10 bolts are only in jeapordy if you have one of three things:

1). M6 with sticky tires (not the case in this discussion).

2). Hooking up with 1.5 or better 60's. Not gonna happen with bolt on ls1's and drag radials. Certainly not gonna happen with bolt ons and street tires. There have been countless guys here who ran 10's on the 10 bolt through an auto. Mid twelves are a cake walk and I have 200+ time slips to prove it.

3). Wheel hop. Not an issue if common sense is used.


Larger stalls (especially when combined with 2.73 gears) does affect the down low feel. I give you that. But smaller stalls especially when combined with 3.23 or better gears can and do feel pretty much like stock.

I have driven a 3000 stall and personally could not tell the difference from stock under normal driving. At slow speeds I was only doing 1000-1200 rpm's and at highway speeds it locks up. MPG is barely affected with smaller size stalls. Now big 3800+ stalls have a much bigger affect on city manners (looseness) and MPG.

But that's why you pick the right stall speed/STR for the right application.

No modern F-bodies get 10 MPG because of a stall alone. Maybe with a 427, huge cam, huge stall & aggressive tune. But if you spend 25K+ on a setup like that then I'm guessing a few extra bucks at the gas pump isn't high on your list of concerns.

We are talking about a 3000 stall that will do NOTHING to highway MPG and might drop city down by 1 or 2. If that is going to break your bank then you might want to reconsider your budget.

If I only had a dime for every time I read "I wish I would have gotten this stall first". It's not the very first mod I would do but it comes in at number three for me.

1). Lid

2). Catback

3) Converter

Then headers, intake, TB, underdrive pulley, tune, suspension, ect. Sometimes gears, stalls & cams need to be changed to fit a new setup. That's the nature of the beast. But if you know that you're going to be bolt-ons and a daily driver for a few years then I say stall that bitch. Two years of kick *** racing, spirited driving, lack of dead spots and much better shift extensions is well worth a grand invested IMO.

Plus most places will restall a converter for far less then the cost of a new one. There is a reason most everyone with an aftermarket converter swears by them, endorses them and refuses to go back to stock.

I know the reason because I have one.

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

Wow, battle of the epic long posts..

Too long I didn't even read it.

98Z28MASS

iTrader: (6)

I agree with the stall comment. Its def one of the best bang for the buck investments for an A4. Bolt on stalled A4's can hit 12's easy and even 11's with weight reduction and sticky tire. I drove my buddies stalled A4 SS for a month while he was away on a work trip and it was fun as hell. There are some downsides as choco stated, such as tranny issues that can arise, but if I were modding an a4 the first thing i would consider is a stall. Plus, if he is looking at a cam in the future one of any decent size is going to need a stall anyways.

ChocoTaco369

I'm not arguing whether or not a stall is a great performance mod. It definitely is. However, it's a poor FIRST mod. It's a bad idea to buy a stall for a completely stock car when you don't know what you want out of the car yet. There are a lot of negatives to a stall, and if you buy a stall without knowing what you want out of the car, you may be wasting your money.

Stick with the basic intake/exhaust mods. They have no downsides other than increased noise and the cost of the product/installation. Buy a stall when you know exactly what you want out of your car and when you can afford downtime because when you stall your car, you're moving a faster toward needing a new tranny and rear end, especially if you buy sticky tires.

Ebbsnflows

iTrader: (15)

LOL....I think "Tording" should've been more clear on his intentions for the car. As well as his wrenching abilities.

I've known Tyler for several years and while he is a "newbie" to LS1 cars...he is far from a newbie to cars in general. Tyler's last car was a 600hp Turbo Fox body (that was built/installed at home in the garage), and his current is a Juiced up Notchback 5.0. So the debate about how a converter isn't for "most people" or a "newbie", doesn't apply to him. So while it's not going to be a dedicated track car, I assure you...the car is going to do what it was designed to do...race. Not fetch groceries or be taken on family vacations.

T...man you gotta give some background so we can avoid arguments like this! LOL

CaliforniaBoy5

iTrader: (16)

lol ***.

darrensls1

I am not arguing that a stall can have some negatives. I am arguing that a smaller stall (3000-3400) doesn't have the negatives. At least not that the average person would notice. Because the average person doesn't notice a 1 mpg decrease.

But I agree that no one should buy a stall without a plan or research. But then again you can say that about any mod. But where we differ is I think every car should upgrade the factory stall which IMO was too small to begin with. I think GM should have given these cars at least a 2800 with a 1.8 STR. But that's just me.

Absolutely not on the rear end. A bolt on auto doesn't have enough power to get low 1.5 60's. And autos can spit out 1.6's all day on a 10 bolt. It's manuals that have to worry because they can't preload the drivetrain like we can.

Getting a 3000-3500 stall is one of the best first mods (third for me) that I can think of. The car is a whole new animal and if set up right can survive a long time with a 4L60E. Mine has. And you can always have it restalled a few years down the road if your goals change.

bigfoot2thefloor

Stall converter, Headers, Ory, Gears. When I bought my car it had a 3600stall, 3.42's, and a cutout. Ive daily driven it for a year and a half and increased my gears to 3.73's within the first 6 months, headers came shortly after.

tording99Z28

iTrader: (3)

Wow, LOL. Sorry about that guys. I guess I should be more informative, I am use to those sissy mustang forums I guess. LOL

Basically I want a 70/30 car. 70% street and 30% track driven. I do want a car that I can go to every morning, start it up, and drive it to work without worrying about if it is going to get me there or not. Gas mileage is not that big of a concern since I live 1.5 miles from work. Not really looking to tear into the bottom of the motor at this point yet but I want to bascially go through the rest of the car and build it up.

After reading the forums here and doing some research I think first things I am going to go with are some gears (3.73) since I have the 2.73's right now which blow and some Long tube headers. At that point I will be ready for a converter/trans cooler and then suspension/cam. Right now I am just enjoying have a little newer car that drives a little nicer.

As Ebbsnflows said I was previously a mustang guy as even though I do love fox bodies they are not always the nicest cars to drive on the street. I do have the money set aside for a new trans in case this one goes as long but as its working I am gonna keep hammering on it. I will get some pictures up of the car once I get the engine bay cleaned up a little more. Thanks for the advice guys. I will try and not start disputes in the future. LOL