K & N Air filter VS. Paper Air Filter ?!
11-12-2007, 09:17 PM
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K & N Air filter VS. Paper Air Filter ?! Guys... So I went to Advanced Auto part store today and I went to buy a new air filter and an oil to do an oil change...
The cashier asked me why I am not going w/ the K & N?. I told him that "it doesn't make any difference between the stock one and the K&N"
He says... Well come take a look at this, IT's a little machine that shows the difference between the fram filter vs the k&n w/ the little ping pong ball.
when he put the k&n in there, the ball flowed all the way to the top,
now when he put the stock paper filter in there, it flowed very very little..
So I just want some opinions about the difference between the stocker vs the k&n,
Does it really make that much difference?
The cashier asked me why I am not going w/ the K & N?. I told him that "it doesn't make any difference between the stock one and the K&N"
He says... Well come take a look at this, IT's a little machine that shows the difference between the fram filter vs the k&n w/ the little ping pong ball.
when he put the k&n in there, the ball flowed all the way to the top,
now when he put the stock paper filter in there, it flowed very very little..
So I just want some opinions about the difference between the stocker vs the k&n,
Does it really make that much difference?
11-12-2007, 09:22 PM
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I don't know if they flow more air, but to me its just more of a money saver-ive had the same air filter in my car for 3 years so its pretty much paid for itself already
11-12-2007, 10:17 PM
#3
Does it allow more air to flow through the filter? Yes.
Does a stock style K&N flow enough to make more power? No.
The K&N is reuseable. If a K&N is 50 bucks and a stock filter is 5 bucks and you change your filter every 10K miles then a K&N will only take 100,000 miles to pay for itself!
Is it worth it? Not in my opinion.
With that said, a full intake system is arguably worth it because it frees up the restrictions in the stock intake designed to keep it quiet and it allows a higher volume of air to be brought into the engine. With the stock system you still have a small opening. I am not sure they have a CAI for the LS1s though.... Just a lid.
Does a stock style K&N flow enough to make more power? No.
The K&N is reuseable. If a K&N is 50 bucks and a stock filter is 5 bucks and you change your filter every 10K miles then a K&N will only take 100,000 miles to pay for itself!
Is it worth it? Not in my opinion.
With that said, a full intake system is arguably worth it because it frees up the restrictions in the stock intake designed to keep it quiet and it allows a higher volume of air to be brought into the engine. With the stock system you still have a small opening. I am not sure they have a CAI for the LS1s though.... Just a lid.
11-12-2007, 10:25 PM
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Does it allow more air to flow through the filter? Yes.
Does a stock style K&N flow enough to make more power? No.
The K&N is reuseable. If a K&N is 50 bucks and a stock filter is 5 bucks and you change your filter every 10K miles then a K&N will only take 100,000 miles to pay for itself!
Is it worth it? Not in my opinion.
With that said, a full intake system is arguably worth it because it frees up the restrictions in the stock intake designed to keep it quiet and it allows a higher volume of air to be brought into the engine. With the stock system you still have a small opening. I am not sure they have a CAI for the LS1s though.... Just a lid.
Does a stock style K&N flow enough to make more power? No.
The K&N is reuseable. If a K&N is 50 bucks and a stock filter is 5 bucks and you change your filter every 10K miles then a K&N will only take 100,000 miles to pay for itself!
Is it worth it? Not in my opinion.
With that said, a full intake system is arguably worth it because it frees up the restrictions in the stock intake designed to keep it quiet and it allows a higher volume of air to be brought into the engine. With the stock system you still have a small opening. I am not sure they have a CAI for the LS1s though.... Just a lid.
11-12-2007, 11:28 PM
#5
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...and if there's a $5 filter I wouldn't use it.I will/have put a K&N in every car I own.
Peace,
Craig.
11-13-2007, 12:11 AM
#7
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Both the K&N and paper are fine. The K&N is re-useable and works great if you follow the instuctions and don't over-oil it. Neither will give you a great power boost, so I use the K&N so I can re-use it. This argument will never end, so spend your brain power on other issues.
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11-13-2007, 02:32 AM
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i have put a k&n in every vehicle ive ever owned from my first car (88 escort) to my camaro...to date i havent seen a more user friendly filter that flows better than a k&n...its almost like trying to breath through a straw everyday then doing it without the straw...just my $.02
11-13-2007, 06:44 AM
#13
My K&N was too oily right out of the box and caused the car to idle strange after 8-10k miles. At least I guess it was the K&N since i cleaned the MAF and all is well now. The car has a total of 27,000 miles so I don't think that it was just normal build up on the MAF. Anyway I'm back to paper and no ill effects.
11-13-2007, 08:18 AM
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The K&N doesn't make any more power (I tried it on the dyno), doesn't fit all that well and, in my personal experience, doesn't filter as well as a clean Fram. I like K&N for conical filters, but not flat-panel...
11-13-2007, 09:00 AM
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Paper filters do a much better job of filtering air.
Back to back oil tests have shown this, with higher silicon (dirt) content when K&N type filters are used.
Paper for me, since K&N offers no real world power gains in an LS1 style intake setup, and offers lesser filtering abilities.
Back to back oil tests have shown this, with higher silicon (dirt) content when K&N type filters are used.
Paper for me, since K&N offers no real world power gains in an LS1 style intake setup, and offers lesser filtering abilities.
11-13-2007, 10:15 AM
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Did this test show any negatives against engine longevity? I use a K&N and I don't see any gains in using it, but what are the drawbacks? Is my motor going to blow up because I used a K&N filter?
11-13-2007, 10:32 AM
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11-13-2007, 10:35 AM
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Read this: http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm . Like all other independant testing results I've seen, it shows the K&N filter does not filter as well as a paper filter.
Besides the fact that over-oiling will cause you to have to clean your MAF, K&N may 'out flow' a paper filter. Naturally aspirated engines really don't use any more air than what paper filters can deliver, and airboxes are designed for more surface area than needed to compensate for dirt to allow more airflow than needed on a stock filter. Therefore, the K&N's 'extra flow' is useless.
All that said, I do like the K&N intake kits, which are guaranteed to make more HP. Not because of the filter, but because of their better design. If the K&N drop in filters were really all that, K&N would extend it's guarantee to them too. Think about it.
From K&N's own website concerning replacement filters:
"2. What increase in horsepower should I see from a K&N replacement filter?
We perform internal dyno (power curve) testing on all our product designs. Our replacement filters are designed to provide up to 4 horsepower. Your results will vary depending on your vehicle, driving habits, load on the engine (towing for example), existing air system restriction, and other factors."
In comparison to their intake kit claims:
"K&N Intake Kits are Guaranteed to Increase Power!
Every Intake Kit we design has been tested on a Dynamometer and proven to increase horsepower. We measure horsepower at the wheels. The horsepower rating that may have been on the window sticker when your car was new is often a measurement of horsepower at the engine and there can be a loss of horsepower through the drive train by the time it reaches the wheels.
K&N hereby warrants and guaranties to the original retail purchaser of any K&N air intake kit that the vehicle on which the air intake system is installed will gain an increase in horsepower, or K&N will refund the purchase price, including sales tax, to the retail purchaser, subject to the following terms and conditions:
The K&N air intake system must have been properly installed on the vehicle in accordance with the included K&N instructions.
The system must be the correct part number for the vehicle upon which it was installed.
The vehicle must be in good running condition.
The vehicle must undergo a dynamometer test both before and after the installation of the system, with no changes to the vehicle, except for the installation of the kit. The dyno tests must be performed by the same testing facility and must be performed within 30 days of one another and within 60 days of the date of purchase. The test results or work order for each test must reflect the name and address of the vehicle owner or operator having the test performed; the year, make, model and mileage of the vehicle being tested; and the horsepower results from both tests.
If the dyno tests show that the vehicle did not gain an increase in horsepower, then the retail purchaser must return the complete air intake system to K&N in its original packaging, together with his or her proof of purchase, the ORIGINALS of the two dyno tests statement requesting a refund in accordance with our Horsepower Guarantee. Upon receipt of all of the foregoing, K&N will refund the full purchase price, including sales tax, to the original retail purchaser.
This guaranty does not apply to any other costs incurred by the purchase, including, but not limited to, the dyno tests, parts and labor for the installation and removal of the air intake system, shipping costs, rental car, loss of use or incidental damages, if any, and K&N expressly disclaims any and all liability for same. "
They have a HP guarantee on their kits, which generally achieve their gains through more free flowing tubing, but there is no guarantee on a replacement filter. I think that alone speaks for itself.
Besides the fact that over-oiling will cause you to have to clean your MAF, K&N may 'out flow' a paper filter. Naturally aspirated engines really don't use any more air than what paper filters can deliver, and airboxes are designed for more surface area than needed to compensate for dirt to allow more airflow than needed on a stock filter. Therefore, the K&N's 'extra flow' is useless.
All that said, I do like the K&N intake kits, which are guaranteed to make more HP. Not because of the filter, but because of their better design. If the K&N drop in filters were really all that, K&N would extend it's guarantee to them too. Think about it.
From K&N's own website concerning replacement filters:
"2. What increase in horsepower should I see from a K&N replacement filter?
We perform internal dyno (power curve) testing on all our product designs. Our replacement filters are designed to provide up to 4 horsepower. Your results will vary depending on your vehicle, driving habits, load on the engine (towing for example), existing air system restriction, and other factors."
In comparison to their intake kit claims:
"K&N Intake Kits are Guaranteed to Increase Power!
Every Intake Kit we design has been tested on a Dynamometer and proven to increase horsepower. We measure horsepower at the wheels. The horsepower rating that may have been on the window sticker when your car was new is often a measurement of horsepower at the engine and there can be a loss of horsepower through the drive train by the time it reaches the wheels.
K&N hereby warrants and guaranties to the original retail purchaser of any K&N air intake kit that the vehicle on which the air intake system is installed will gain an increase in horsepower, or K&N will refund the purchase price, including sales tax, to the retail purchaser, subject to the following terms and conditions:
The K&N air intake system must have been properly installed on the vehicle in accordance with the included K&N instructions.
The system must be the correct part number for the vehicle upon which it was installed.
The vehicle must be in good running condition.
The vehicle must undergo a dynamometer test both before and after the installation of the system, with no changes to the vehicle, except for the installation of the kit. The dyno tests must be performed by the same testing facility and must be performed within 30 days of one another and within 60 days of the date of purchase. The test results or work order for each test must reflect the name and address of the vehicle owner or operator having the test performed; the year, make, model and mileage of the vehicle being tested; and the horsepower results from both tests.
If the dyno tests show that the vehicle did not gain an increase in horsepower, then the retail purchaser must return the complete air intake system to K&N in its original packaging, together with his or her proof of purchase, the ORIGINALS of the two dyno tests statement requesting a refund in accordance with our Horsepower Guarantee. Upon receipt of all of the foregoing, K&N will refund the full purchase price, including sales tax, to the original retail purchaser.
This guaranty does not apply to any other costs incurred by the purchase, including, but not limited to, the dyno tests, parts and labor for the installation and removal of the air intake system, shipping costs, rental car, loss of use or incidental damages, if any, and K&N expressly disclaims any and all liability for same. "
They have a HP guarantee on their kits, which generally achieve their gains through more free flowing tubing, but there is no guarantee on a replacement filter. I think that alone speaks for itself.