RR-STAGE 4 on Nitrous and Methanol *VID*
10-23-2009, 11:45 PM
#1
FormerVendor
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RR-STAGE 4 on Nitrous and Methanol *VID* We just finished up with this Nitrous and Methanol install this week. We have installed Methano on a few NA Cars now. It is a fuel source so it richens up the cars a good bit and needs to be retuned when using it NA. You have to be carefull with the mixtures though. Just like when running Torco, race gas has a slower burn which can cause a loss in power. We witnessed this with this car. The wrong jetting for the meth and this car was losing power. After getting the meth right the car was back where it needed to be. It didn't make any more power. What it did do was lower the intake temps by 30 degrees. This is nice for going to the track on hot days.
Now onto what the meth helped with tremendously. Usually when running a 100 shot you pick up 100 give or take a few ponies. I normally tune the cars down for spray. We hooked a Lingenfelter timing box to the setup so we would not change the NA tune. It is wired into the Nitrous Switch so when it is on the timing is automatically drawn back. With the timing back it dropped the car to 550 rwhp. When we sprayed the 100shot we picked up 190rwhp I can honestly say I have never seen this. From 550 to 740rwhp. We even backed the shot down to a 75 shot and still ran 681rwhp, +130hpgain.
Needless to say we were very impressed. I had planned on running 125shot on the car, but with the results and a stock bottom end we felt it was best to leave it at 681 for the trip home. If our customer decides to pump it then that up to him
The Meth being a fuel source give a nice margin or safety for nitrous as well, but like I posted earlier you need to know when enough is enough. You can see huge gains with out having to use a huge shot of nitrous. This is a very big plus. We have picked up power, usually 7-10 with meth, but it was 60 degrees in the shop today. The Iat's were dropping to 30. It wasn't 100 like it has been in the past few months. I hope you guys like to video and graphs.
Shawn
[youtube]unYEGJ3lz2M[/youtube]
Now onto what the meth helped with tremendously. Usually when running a 100 shot you pick up 100 give or take a few ponies. I normally tune the cars down for spray. We hooked a Lingenfelter timing box to the setup so we would not change the NA tune. It is wired into the Nitrous Switch so when it is on the timing is automatically drawn back. With the timing back it dropped the car to 550 rwhp. When we sprayed the 100shot we picked up 190rwhp I can honestly say I have never seen this. From 550 to 740rwhp. We even backed the shot down to a 75 shot and still ran 681rwhp, +130hpgain.
Needless to say we were very impressed. I had planned on running 125shot on the car, but with the results and a stock bottom end we felt it was best to leave it at 681 for the trip home. If our customer decides to pump it then that up to him
The Meth being a fuel source give a nice margin or safety for nitrous as well, but like I posted earlier you need to know when enough is enough. You can see huge gains with out having to use a huge shot of nitrous. This is a very big plus. We have picked up power, usually 7-10 with meth, but it was 60 degrees in the shop today. The Iat's were dropping to 30. It wasn't 100 like it has been in the past few months. I hope you guys like to video and graphs.
Shawn
[youtube]unYEGJ3lz2M[/youtube]
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11-02-2009, 10:14 AM
#9
TECH Resident
Thats just a general guideline. Atmospheric conditions, head design/flow, cam design/efficiency, etc play into how much you actually get from the nitrous.
For example, it is known that a bone stock ls1 will generally get a higher number than the jets suggest because of its superior head design. The 95-98 Mustang GT was the opposite generally getting LOWER than the jets suggested leading to believe that its heads(the much maligned non-P.I. head design)didnt allow the nitrous to be fully effective. IMO this is one of the reasons people started calling the LS-based motor the motor touched by God. Because of its head design, intake and exhaust modifications produce incredible gains.
For example, it is known that a bone stock ls1 will generally get a higher number than the jets suggest because of its superior head design. The 95-98 Mustang GT was the opposite generally getting LOWER than the jets suggested leading to believe that its heads(the much maligned non-P.I. head design)didnt allow the nitrous to be fully effective. IMO this is one of the reasons people started calling the LS-based motor the motor touched by God. Because of its head design, intake and exhaust modifications produce incredible gains.
11-03-2009, 09:26 PM
#15
A wideband is a great tunning tool. However it is not the holy grail. Like stated above the plugs are the tell all. They tell you exactly what is going on in the combustion chamber in each cylinder. Every engine will vary as far as where it likes its timming and how much fuel it wants.
On a average street car set up using a wideband and knowing the average where abouts the airfuel and timing should be is the normal. Reading the plugs is still a good thing to know but under most cercumstances the platforms and methods are all pretty much the same so reading plugs is not as commonly used.
However when you get into a all out race application or high horse power level car reading the plugs and undertanding what the car wants timming and fuel wise changes quite a bit and is more important than ever.
This is why when I advise how to do something I carefully do so according to where the customers experience level and horse power level is. Throwing some of the tunning methods I use and teach on a high horse power race car at a average 400-600 hp street car guy would do nothing more than over complicate things and confuse them. I have learned over the years I have to evaluate each individual seperatly and be careful how I feed the knowledge.
Dave
On a average street car set up using a wideband and knowing the average where abouts the airfuel and timing should be is the normal. Reading the plugs is still a good thing to know but under most cercumstances the platforms and methods are all pretty much the same so reading plugs is not as commonly used.
However when you get into a all out race application or high horse power level car reading the plugs and undertanding what the car wants timming and fuel wise changes quite a bit and is more important than ever.
This is why when I advise how to do something I carefully do so according to where the customers experience level and horse power level is. Throwing some of the tunning methods I use and teach on a high horse power race car at a average 400-600 hp street car guy would do nothing more than over complicate things and confuse them. I have learned over the years I have to evaluate each individual seperatly and be careful how I feed the knowledge.
Dave
11-03-2009, 11:40 PM
#16
TECH Resident
A wideband is a great tunning tool. However it is not the holy grail. Like stated above the plugs are the tell all. They tell you exactly what is going on in the combustion chamber in each cylinder. Every engine will vary as far as where it likes its timming and how much fuel it wants.
On a average street car set up using a wideband and knowing the average where abouts the airfuel and timing should be is the normal. Reading the plugs is still a good thing to know but under most cercumstances the platforms and methods are all pretty much the same so reading plugs is not as commonly used.
However when you get into a all out race application or high horse power level car reading the plugs and undertanding what the car wants timming and fuel wise changes quite a bit and is more important than ever.
This is why when I advise how to do something I carefully do so according to where the customers experience level and horse power level is. Throwing some of the tunning methods I use and teach on a high horse power race car at a average 400-600 hp street car guy would do nothing more than over complicate things and confuse them. I have learned over the years I have to evaluate each individual seperatly and be careful how I feed the knowledge.
Dave
On a average street car set up using a wideband and knowing the average where abouts the airfuel and timing should be is the normal. Reading the plugs is still a good thing to know but under most cercumstances the platforms and methods are all pretty much the same so reading plugs is not as commonly used.
However when you get into a all out race application or high horse power level car reading the plugs and undertanding what the car wants timming and fuel wise changes quite a bit and is more important than ever.
This is why when I advise how to do something I carefully do so according to where the customers experience level and horse power level is. Throwing some of the tunning methods I use and teach on a high horse power race car at a average 400-600 hp street car guy would do nothing more than over complicate things and confuse them. I have learned over the years I have to evaluate each individual seperatly and be careful how I feed the knowledge.
Dave
