Anyone have issues with blowing out spark on the bottle?
05-04-2010, 10:20 AM
#1
Anyone have issues with blowing out spark on the bottle? Guys:
I know this is a pretty strange question for this section of the forum, but I figured that since it deals with my car on the bottle I would get a better response from some of the "nitrous heavy hitters," here.
I was down at VA Speed a few weekends ago for their open house, and the guys there were kind enough to let me strap the car to the dyno. After two pulls getting out of it early (had been having trans leakage problems on the dyno previously and wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have to clean their shop) I made a pull to about 6500 on the bottle. Everything looked fine to me up top (way leaner than most would run at 13.1:1, but it was stable works for me with only 10* of timing in the motor and good gas) and it made the power I was expecting it to (nearly 600 on the 175 pill through a TH400).
My issue with the pull, however, is that it had what showed as a NASTY lean condition (pegged their wideband lean) right at peak torque (when the nitrous activates at 3400). Unfortunately I was unable to pull the plugs and see what was up there. I would normally chalk this up to fuel not hitting the plate as quickly as nitrous, but it lasted for NEARLY TWO SECONDS in which the car only gained about 600 RPM and you can feel/hear the car falling on its face (I know, I know, I should have let out.... I'm stubborn though, and wanted some data).
I got the car home and flowed the system. All looks good there as the flowing pressure is what it should be and there is no noticeable delay on the fuel reaching the plate (Zex perimiter). I'm sure I would have noticed a 2 second delay there. The other strange thing is that the car is setup the exact same way it ran the 10.0 in my sig. with a subpar 60' (1.48). The logs from all of my track passes have always been clean.
In all honesty, I'm probably just trying to trick myself into believing that the reason for the lean reading was some sort of a spark blowout or misfire condition that made the wideband wig out... I'm still trying to figure it out and would appreciate any commentary on the subject.
Thanks!
I know this is a pretty strange question for this section of the forum, but I figured that since it deals with my car on the bottle I would get a better response from some of the "nitrous heavy hitters," here.
I was down at VA Speed a few weekends ago for their open house, and the guys there were kind enough to let me strap the car to the dyno. After two pulls getting out of it early (had been having trans leakage problems on the dyno previously and wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have to clean their shop) I made a pull to about 6500 on the bottle. Everything looked fine to me up top (way leaner than most would run at 13.1:1, but it was stable works for me with only 10* of timing in the motor and good gas) and it made the power I was expecting it to (nearly 600 on the 175 pill through a TH400).
My issue with the pull, however, is that it had what showed as a NASTY lean condition (pegged their wideband lean) right at peak torque (when the nitrous activates at 3400). Unfortunately I was unable to pull the plugs and see what was up there. I would normally chalk this up to fuel not hitting the plate as quickly as nitrous, but it lasted for NEARLY TWO SECONDS in which the car only gained about 600 RPM and you can feel/hear the car falling on its face (I know, I know, I should have let out.... I'm stubborn though, and wanted some data).
I got the car home and flowed the system. All looks good there as the flowing pressure is what it should be and there is no noticeable delay on the fuel reaching the plate (Zex perimiter). I'm sure I would have noticed a 2 second delay there. The other strange thing is that the car is setup the exact same way it ran the 10.0 in my sig. with a subpar 60' (1.48). The logs from all of my track passes have always been clean.
In all honesty, I'm probably just trying to trick myself into believing that the reason for the lean reading was some sort of a spark blowout or misfire condition that made the wideband wig out... I'm still trying to figure it out and would appreciate any commentary on the subject.
Thanks!
05-04-2010, 12:54 PM
#2
I have had this happen on motor before, where it was so lean, it wouldn't even accererate. We started doing pulls from 4500, and it worked itself out. It ended up being in the tune.
What are your plugs gapped at? I've never blown out the spark before, and if you did, it would show rich.
What are your plugs gapped at? I've never blown out the spark before, and if you did, it would show rich.
05-04-2010, 12:57 PM
#3
Plugs are at .035.
It shouldn't show rich if you aren't burning fuel and O2. The WBO2 measures oxygen, not fuel, therefore if spark is being blown out, combustion is not happening, and there is raw unburnt oxygen hitting the sensor. That shows lean (unless I'm totally missing something in your theory.
What was up with yours in the tune?
It shouldn't show rich if you aren't burning fuel and O2. The WBO2 measures oxygen, not fuel, therefore if spark is being blown out, combustion is not happening, and there is raw unburnt oxygen hitting the sensor. That shows lean (unless I'm totally missing something in your theory.
What was up with yours in the tune?
05-04-2010, 01:06 PM
#4
So if you have a dead hole, it will show lean on the wideband? That seems hard to believe, but I've been wrong before.
My problem ended up being in the VE table (EFILive SD). It was so lean that it wouldn't hardly launch, but once it got moving it would rip. I didn't have enough fuel in the bottom portion of the table once I went to the vic and 4150 TB.
My problem ended up being in the VE table (EFILive SD). It was so lean that it wouldn't hardly launch, but once it got moving it would rip. I didn't have enough fuel in the bottom portion of the table once I went to the vic and 4150 TB.
05-04-2010, 01:14 PM
#5
Hmmmm... That's interesting. I'll have to try adding some fuel there, or maybe a few more degrees of timing down low (I've obviously got a TON out of it for the bottle).
The dead hole reading lean depends on what the rest of the motor is doing as a reaction to the dead hole. I've seen cases where you have a violent missfire and the WB reads lean even though the cause is a SUPER RICH condition. You try adding more fuel, the car falls on its face harder. Pull fuel and it clears up and the O2 readings get better. If it's not burning anything (too rich to support proper/full combustion), the WB will read lean.
The dead hole reading lean depends on what the rest of the motor is doing as a reaction to the dead hole. I've seen cases where you have a violent missfire and the WB reads lean even though the cause is a SUPER RICH condition. You try adding more fuel, the car falls on its face harder. Pull fuel and it clears up and the O2 readings get better. If it's not burning anything (too rich to support proper/full combustion), the WB will read lean.
05-04-2010, 01:20 PM
#6
Hmmmm... That's interesting. I'll have to try adding some fuel there, or maybe a few more degrees of timing down low (I've obviously got a TON out of it for the bottle).
The dead hole reading lean depends on what the rest of the motor is doing as a reaction to the dead hole. I've seen cases where you have a violent missfire and the WB reads lean even though the cause is a SUPER RICH condition. You try adding more fuel, the car falls on its face harder. Pull fuel and it clears up and the O2 readings get better. If it's not burning anything (too rich to support proper/full combustion), the WB will read lean.
The dead hole reading lean depends on what the rest of the motor is doing as a reaction to the dead hole. I've seen cases where you have a violent missfire and the WB reads lean even though the cause is a SUPER RICH condition. You try adding more fuel, the car falls on its face harder. Pull fuel and it clears up and the O2 readings get better. If it's not burning anything (too rich to support proper/full combustion), the WB will read lean.
I see what you're saying.
About the dyno pull, the torque convertor can also factor into why it wouldn't accelerate. I would try to log a couple dig runs and see if it stumbles from a dig.
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05-04-2010, 01:42 PM
#9
Good point. Since the thing flashes up so hard on the street, the tuning may not be right for it being lugged around on a dyno like that. It just felt crazy... pardon my awful explination but it was kind of like WAHHHHHHHH
- :Crickets: - WAHHHHHHHH on the dyno and the part where it was dead was where it went lean
Just felt bizzare.
- :Crickets: - WAHHHHHHHH on the dyno and the part where it was dead was where it went leanJust felt bizzare.
05-04-2010, 04:33 PM
#11
The first thing I thought of would be converter related and the flash point in which it will have no load basically until it gets past that point. Probably not making much sense as Im typing it but makes sense in my head. haha.
I wouldnt say it is a spark problem, but I have been wrong plenty of times, we do run our gaps a lot more narrow then that though.
I wouldnt say it is a spark problem, but I have been wrong plenty of times, we do run our gaps a lot more narrow then that though.
05-04-2010, 04:38 PM
#12
So basically since the roller isn't loading my car as hard as it is loaded on the street/track, it could be causing it to act all messed up on the dyno. I can totally suspect that that could be the cause.
Where do y'all run the gap? I was thinking about the .030-.028 range
Where do y'all run the gap? I was thinking about the .030-.028 range
05-04-2010, 06:13 PM
#19
1st I would take the dyno out of the picture. Go make a pull at the track or on a "safe" street and see if it does it.
Also get rid of the zex plate... SJ posted a pic of how that plate flows on YB and it wasnt very good.
Edit: found the thread ...
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=239683
Also get rid of the zex plate... SJ posted a pic of how that plate flows on YB and it wasnt very good.
Edit: found the thread ...
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=239683
Last edited by ATVracr; 05-04-2010 at 06:19 PM.
