Scott

On Saturday I ran for the first time out my set up with the nitrous system activated. My run was as follows:

60': 1.48
330: 4.43
1/8: 6.84
1/8 mph: 102.51
1000: 8.89
1/4: 10.62
1/4 mph: 130.69

However, there is some skeptics out there that the TNT 100 shot is not really a 100 shot since it's a dual nozzle system 22F/39N. They think it's something like a 175 shot or something like that, but not a true 100 shot. I remember this discussion some time ago on LS1.com, but I for one want to make sure that if I'm thinking I'm spraying a 100 shot, that I truely am spraying a 100 shot. I just want to air on the side of caution.

Thanks guys!!!

Oh and that 10.62 was one HELL OF A RIDE!!! <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

The two TNT jets (.039) have 12.5% more volume than a single .052 jet used in the NX kit (their 100 shot). Not an apples to apples comarison, but great ET and mph.

FlamingTA

iTrader: (8)

Hey man, can I ask you some questions on you setup? I have pretty much the same thing but with a 224v3 cam and a TH350 w/4000E stall. How high did you spin the motor on the nitrous? I want to get the same times as you got.

Mike Morgan

Scott,
I was going to reply, but I hadn't registered yet.

2 - .039" jets do not equal 1 - .078" jet
it is closer to a .055" jet.

Those that say that a 100hp is a 100hp regardless of the engine is foolish. There are many factors which influence a motors power gain, with or without NOS.

In my book 9mph will show up at about a 90-100RWHP gain. The other thing NOS does that people don't consider is the avg HP gain can be much better than the peak to peak gains. People always say NOS is HP in a bottle, I prefer TORQUE in a bottle.

Also your N/A setup is far from optimized. If N/A and NOS setups were optimized independently then you would see less of a gain. It just happens that the NOS helps out a bad N/A setup (no offense <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0"> )

You put more gear, shorter tire, and more stall in the N/A setup you will pickup ET and MPH.

Ragtop 99

iTrader: (7)

It's pretty easy to believe that it is 100 shot when you start with a car running 11.4s at over 120 mph NA.

Dave

Rule of thumb:
4 lb/min per 100 HP, so a 10 lb tank should be good for ten runs, give or take if it was 100 shot... <img src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" border="0" alt="[judgement]" />

Nickn20

[quote]Originally posted by Mike Morgan:
<strong>Scott,
I was going to reply, but I hadn't registered yet.

2 - .039" jets do not equal 1 - .078" jet
it is closer to a .055" jet.

Those that say that a 100hp is a 100hp regardless of the engine is foolish. There are many factors which influence a motors power gain, with or without NOS.

In my book 9mph will show up at about a 90-100RWHP gain. The other thing NOS does that people don't consider is the avg HP gain can be much better than the peak to peak gains. People always say NOS is HP in a bottle, I prefer TORQUE in a bottle.

Also your N/A setup is far from optimized. If N/A and NOS setups were optimized independently then you would see less of a gain. It just happens that the NOS helps out a bad N/A setup (no offense <img src="gr_tounge.gif" border="0"> )

You put more gear, shorter tire, and more stall in the N/A setup you will pickup ET and MPH.</strong><hr></blockquote>


A bad N/A or a car built for nitrous wouldn't you think? big stall big tires = beastly lauch and to hold the power of a 100 shot now, wait till he sprays a 250 shot
<img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">

N2O Guy

Well said Mr Morgan. Our 100rwhp rating is on a bone stock LS1. Anything you do to increase air flow (intake or exhaust) will also increase the amount of nitrous/fuel the engine will ingest. This does and will cause a particular application to do better or worse while spraying.
<img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" /> Happy Nitrousing <img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" />

Hpjunkie1973

I see where the confusion is comming into play here TNT is a new company and is rating the horspower at the REAR wheels , all other nitrous kit companies rate there horsepower at the flywheel , so casically when you use a TNT kit all the old things you have heard about nitrous you can throw out the window. A 100"REAR"wheelhorsepower kit is spraying more than a 100 at the flywheel , which might tend to give the consumer a false since of what he is actually spraying .. TNT has covered there but because they are telling you its RWHPer ... but you are going by old standard rules made by other companies who rate differently , basicall TNT is making there own rules, so dont go by what you have heard in the past .... SCOTT if you are getting 100RWHP you are spraying more than a 100 shot by all the OTHER nitrous oxide kit manufactuers other than TNT. You loose HPer through drivetrain and NOS,compucar and nitrous works all rate at FLYWHEEL ... i understand now how people are picking up so much with the TNT kits now ... nice gimic Mr. TNT .... Scott trust me you are spraying more than a 100 shot ... maybe TNT should tell you nitrpous consumption ... or better yet weigh your bottle after each pass and do the math .... HAPPY RACING

Edge Hawk

I don't think TNT is doing anything wrong by advertising RWHP.

Do you expect a company to tell you all the variables and give you a HP number...for example....
A 100 TNT kit on my car might take me from 320 rwhp to 420 rwhp.

Now on a car that has a better exhaust, cam, whatever, it might go from 350 to 460.

It's the same way on an NX kit, NOS kit.

The responsibly of learning about NOS or any mod that you are doing lies with the Racer, not 100% on the company.

Now, the best business model would be for an informed Racer, and I'm sure TNT doesn't just give a kit to a kid and say bolt this up, you'll run 10s.

Just because TNT is going by a different standard than NX & NOS, isn't a tricky gimic or some scheme. Do you really think they want people blowing up or melting pistons on their kit? No.

/start rant

Infact I would rather have some real RWHP expectations. In my case, i have the stock 4l60e tranny. What's the max torque & hp it can handle? I heard 450 RWTQ. I'm at 338now. A 100 rwhp shot for me would bring it to 450 probably, but that's too much for me, because my rwtq rating is SAE corrected....so if I run a 100rwhp shot at a temp and baro different than the SAE standards, I'm f'd. a 75 rwhp shot is all I would do. But if i went and put on a higher stall TC, I wouldn't want a 75 shot on there, becuase I'll have one hell of a TQ spike there and over time I'm toast. You see the responsibly lies with me. I am the one buy a mod, installing it. I am the one who needs to be an expert on it as much as I can be. If I can't then I have no place running the setup or crying if I melt my engine.

Sorry I'm just sick of everyone wanting everything spoonfed to them.
end rant/


also, the Area of 2 .039" dia. jets = 1 .0585" dia. jet.

so if you want to compare TNT's kit with NX's or NAWwwwwws's just use some some simple math to figure it out.

A=¶r^2

or it takes 4 circles of X diameter to equal 1 circle of 2X diameter.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel ]</p>

Hpjunkie1973

Eagle ... i NEVER said that TNT was doing anything wrong it is not there responsibility to hold the consumers hand i agree ..... and by "gimic" i meant they are doing what no co. has done in the past ... so at the REAL WORLD track nitrous lingo when someone says they ran a certain ET on a 100 shot TNT looks like they are dominating , but in actuality a TNT 100 shot and a NOS 100 shot arent even close to the same amount of nitrous being sprayed ,hey nothing wrong with it , thats why i complimented the co. .... but eagle most standards were set by older companies , thats why i said TNT is making there own rules , <img src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" border="0" alt="[hail]" /> JOE PETTITT did the same thing for NOS years ago , but it is in the advanced jetting and nitrous tuning, not how they rate there kits .... hope this clears things up ......HAPPY RACING

JimmyKash

would someone just loan him an NX kit to put on his car so we can see the difference...

not that it matters to me anyway, jeesh <img src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

be happy for the person

GOOD RUN

Scott

Thanks everyone for the information. I'm learning more and more each day about this nitrous system and the nitrous community. I use to have a NX kit on the car, but when I installed a 150 shot and only got 123 at the rear wheels, I thought that it wasn't a true 150 shot not knowing it was 150 at the crank. So, I switched over to the TNT kit. I actually like both kits, but at the time I didn't know that the rating was at the crank and when dynoed on a 150 shot of NX I was a little disappointed.

Anyway, this is a great topic and a great discussion. Thanks all for commenting!!!

N2O Guy

I did the rwhp ratings not to confuse the consumer but to better inform them of the actual real world gain we would give them. I took it to the next level by entering in specific application driveline loss so the performance gain would be what I claimed. So many companies selling race parts dont deliver what they advertise and being a racer I know what being shorted feels like. Its all in how you look at it I guess. My intentions could be misconstrude as being desceptive but those of you that can remember when I first came to market with the LT1 stuff over at camaroz28.com. People said what does a rear wheel gain matter its what it runs at the track. Well I knew then that it correlated and now many others do too. I have always rated my kits at the tire and until I feel there is a better method for rating delivered power I will continue.I dont design anything with other companies parts or ratings in mind. For those of you that are curious how much nitrous my 100hp uses its around 4lbs a minute or .7 per 10 seconds. Same as NX and many others. The key difference isnt in the nitrous amount being applied. It how efficient we use the fuel. If you can atomise the fuel finer it will burn more of it. So because you can now burn the majority of what fuel you add you can now add even more for the same volume of oxygen(N2O in this scenario). This allows the combustion to occur at a lower temperture (this equates to longer lasting engines) and creates even more torque. This technique isnt a new concept its what fuel injection was based upon. I hope this helps everyone understand we arent trying to deceive anyone only deliver what you are already paying for when purchasing a kit. My goal in designing nitrous systems is to INNOVATE not imitate. TNT doas do things different and its what we will continue to do. Hope this helps.. <img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" /> Happy Nitrousing <img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" />

Hpjunkie1973

N20 guy i think you are missing my point all together .... yes you are lowing dynamic compression because you are atmomizing fuel better with a better mixture, but you know as well as i do that is comming from a dual annular nozzle set up you are flowing the same volume with dual jets and better velocity making your droplets finer creating more surface area for quicker vaporization. i didnt say it wasnt a good idea ... and all old school nitrous users know the old MULTIPLY by .85 trick to compensate for drivetrain. but your consumers are claiming they are spraying much smaller shots than they are , and because you have changed the rules now it has made it hard on us engine builders who reccomend a kit ... and they go out and spray a 175 when we have already compensated ... N20 guy you know damn well some of the guys that run nitrous oxide SHOULDNT BE .... but now you have changed the rules and by that i mean nitrous oxide isnt a new break through its been around a long time and boudaries have been set im sure you yourself have converted other formulas made by other manufactuers .... im not saying change your rating im just saying you need to make it VERY apparent to the guys out there buying your kits exactly what they are spraying ....im not calling you out here im just stating facts ... when racers at the track here there buddy is running a 150shot on his LS1 and he says to himself hey damn im gonna get a TNT 150 he has stepped into a whole nother world ... and althought you wont admit it , you can see where a false sence of nitrous being sprayed can come into effect ... i had never heard of your co. till now and you look like you have nice products ... i am just saying if you ever were an engine builder and saw the type of people that come to you and totally put lots of money and faith in your hands you might understand ... just today on this board i saw a post where someone compared a 100TNT to a 100NOS ... And thats the point im making , just be sure your consumers know cause i have seen several that havent on this board .....Happy racing

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

For those of you who seem confused. Two orfice jets will not flow as much fluid(N2O) in this case as a single jet of equal volume. That my friend is due to the pressure drop that occurs when a gas passes through an orfice. The smaller the orfice the greater the pressure drop. The larger amount of pressure drop causes a larger loss of energy resulting in less flow. TNT's performance, reliability and most importantly customer service, is second to none.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: cantdrv65 ]</p>

Hpjunkie1973

Cant if your are spraying "FLUID" N20 through your orfice , you better change your seperator on your fill station <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> ... HAPPY RACING

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

A fluid is a liquid or gas Einstein...

Hpjunkie1973

Cant do a dry system nitrous check on a bench ... then tell me what you see ... also look up the word liquid and gas .... liquid has more weight than gas ... and why you call me einstein ... i think some of yall TNT users are getting offended and thats not my reasoning for posting ..... liquid= : a fluid (as water) that has no independent shape but has a definite volume and does not expand indefinitely and that is only slightly compressible
gas= 1 : a fluid (as air) that has neither independent shape nor volume but tends to expand indefinitely
.... HAppy Racing

N2O Guy

HPJunkie - Excuse me but you are very confused about what im doing. Atomization of fuel is in no-way going to lower dynamic compression while spraying. Anyway my point is this... If we (all companies afore mentioned) all use the same lbs per second to make 100hp then how is it I am overrating or not informing the users of the proper HP. As I already stated above. Anyone that has ever purchased a system from me or one of my people have been informed that we rate as rearwheel horsepower. Not that we are adding more nitrous, just delivering more power. Its common knowledge among the tuners we are able to apply more power safely then has ever been achieved. Our systems dont have to be ragged lean to make quoted power. Call the TOP Tuners (to the right) and verify as they will inform you. I have been building kits for racers for awhile and I never used or relied on the so called old school .85 trick? I only rely on actuall data acquired from time logged on a dyno with that particular application, not a general trick as you put it. Every car we offer a specific kit for has under gone this method. I have the pleasure of supplying the Most respectable and knowledgable engine builders in the LS1 business and they have used our products with no issues like you have mentioned above.

cantdrive65- You are correct. We actually keep the nitrous in a liquid state much longer. The more dense the nitrous stays the more power per volume it will deliver.
Happy Nitrousing <img src="graemlins/gr_xmas.gif" border="0" alt="[santa]" />