(Updated 3/14/17)Do i need to lean it out? 100 shot .4 tenths and only 5 mph
02-23-2017, 10:18 AM
#1
(Updated 3/14/17)Do i need to lean it out? 100 shot .4 tenths and only 5 mph Hey Guys finally got a WB on the car just for A/F monitoring its an MTX-L. Using the software the provide for logging. File will be attached.
Set up is a NOS mini to come on out the gate and have the window set at 3600-6700, Nitrous outlet 90mm plate kit running the recommended jet sizes for the 100 shot 52n 23f. Car makes about 490ish NA.
On motor its went 11.2 at 119 1.5x 60ft and on the 100 shot went 10.8 at 125 1.5x 60ft. I was just wondering if this was correct. I looked at the WB logs and it seem to go all the way down too 10.7 afr. I am new to reading logs and was looking for some help if i need to adjust fuel jet etc. Thanks in advance guys.
Bottle pressure was at 950 on this run. The file has to be extracted and you have to have the software innovate give for free .
Set up is a NOS mini to come on out the gate and have the window set at 3600-6700, Nitrous outlet 90mm plate kit running the recommended jet sizes for the 100 shot 52n 23f. Car makes about 490ish NA.
On motor its went 11.2 at 119 1.5x 60ft and on the 100 shot went 10.8 at 125 1.5x 60ft. I was just wondering if this was correct. I looked at the WB logs and it seem to go all the way down too 10.7 afr. I am new to reading logs and was looking for some help if i need to adjust fuel jet etc. Thanks in advance guys.
Bottle pressure was at 950 on this run. The file has to be extracted and you have to have the software innovate give for free .
Last edited by soloman369; 03-14-2017 at 11:12 AM.
02-23-2017, 12:34 PM
#3
Thank you for the reply. As far as reading plugs I really don't know how to do that. As far as timing goes I have four degrees pulled out I'm just going by the rule of thumb 2 for every 50. I was thinking of either adding a degree or taking out a degree and seeing if the mile per hour changes. Also all motor the AF is about 12 3.
02-23-2017, 02:26 PM
#6
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Make a hit and check the plugs. There are a lot of good threads in the section on reading plugs and I have learned a lot. When I first ran my nitrous system the wideband showed low 10.x reading and had a pop to it. I chased my tail trying to pull fuel out and it made it worse. I checked a plug It was actually too lean and I needed MORE fuel. The wideband is a nice tool but it absolutely doesn't replace reading the plugs.
02-23-2017, 02:39 PM
#7
Make a hit and check the plugs. There are a lot of good threads in the section on reading plugs and I have learned a lot. When I first ran my nitrous system the wideband showed low 10.x reading and had a pop to it. I chased my tail trying to pull fuel out and it made it worse. I checked a plug It was actually too lean and I needed MORE fuel. The wideband is a nice tool but it absolutely doesn't replace reading the plugs.
*Also run the br7 plugs I read back and saw i forgot to mention that.
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02-23-2017, 05:25 PM
#10
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Correct. The plugs don't lie as long as you do the procedure correctly. You can see what each individual cylinder is doing with reading plugs instead of just seeing left side bank and right side bank. After I got my tune sorted out for a specific hp setting I just run it now. I will put a fresh plug in my hottest cylinder from time to time just to check it
02-24-2017, 12:46 AM
#11
TECH Junkie
Add my vote into the plug reading pile. An o2 sensor will only tell part of the story. Reading the plugs will tell you much more than the wideband ever will.
If you aren't confident in plug reading, there are a couple old NASCAR writeups you can find that go into good detail on what to look for. If you don't want to try, you can dial in the wideband on very conservative timing, then bring it back in.
Once AFR is where you want to target, start adding timing back in until MPH falls off OR once the knock sensors show you that you're having detonation. Then, you can try to fight the detonation by either adding fuel, or just pulling the timing back off. This is why tuning with the wideband should come second to the plugs.
If you want, put a fresh set of plugs in, immediately make a pass, shut it down at the stripe. Tow back to the pits (or just pull the plugs on the side of the road if you're into street tuning) and cut off the threads so we can see the entire porcelain. Take a pic of the porcelain, and take a pic of the timing strap also. If you post high quality pics of these in decent light, there should be enough guys on here to help get you straightened out (and maybe even give a quick and dirty plug reading lesson for you if you want)
If you aren't confident in plug reading, there are a couple old NASCAR writeups you can find that go into good detail on what to look for. If you don't want to try, you can dial in the wideband on very conservative timing, then bring it back in.
Once AFR is where you want to target, start adding timing back in until MPH falls off OR once the knock sensors show you that you're having detonation. Then, you can try to fight the detonation by either adding fuel, or just pulling the timing back off. This is why tuning with the wideband should come second to the plugs.
If you want, put a fresh set of plugs in, immediately make a pass, shut it down at the stripe. Tow back to the pits (or just pull the plugs on the side of the road if you're into street tuning) and cut off the threads so we can see the entire porcelain. Take a pic of the porcelain, and take a pic of the timing strap also. If you post high quality pics of these in decent light, there should be enough guys on here to help get you straightened out (and maybe even give a quick and dirty plug reading lesson for you if you want)
02-24-2017, 04:48 PM
#12
Add my vote into the plug reading pile. An o2 sensor will only tell part of the story. Reading the plugs will tell you much more than the wideband ever will.
If you aren't confident in plug reading, there are a couple old NASCAR writeups you can find that go into good detail on what to look for. If you don't want to try, you can dial in the wideband on very conservative timing, then bring it back in.
Once AFR is where you want to target, start adding timing back in until MPH falls off OR once the knock sensors show you that you're having detonation. Then, you can try to fight the detonation by either adding fuel, or just pulling the timing back off. This is why tuning with the wideband should come second to the plugs.
If you want, put a fresh set of plugs in, immediately make a pass, shut it down at the stripe. Tow back to the pits (or just pull the plugs on the side of the road if you're into street tuning) and cut off the threads so we can see the entire porcelain. Take a pic of the porcelain, and take a pic of the timing strap also. If you post high quality pics of these in decent light, there should be enough guys on here to help get you straightened out (and maybe even give a quick and dirty plug reading lesson for you if you want)
If you aren't confident in plug reading, there are a couple old NASCAR writeups you can find that go into good detail on what to look for. If you don't want to try, you can dial in the wideband on very conservative timing, then bring it back in.
Once AFR is where you want to target, start adding timing back in until MPH falls off OR once the knock sensors show you that you're having detonation. Then, you can try to fight the detonation by either adding fuel, or just pulling the timing back off. This is why tuning with the wideband should come second to the plugs.
If you want, put a fresh set of plugs in, immediately make a pass, shut it down at the stripe. Tow back to the pits (or just pull the plugs on the side of the road if you're into street tuning) and cut off the threads so we can see the entire porcelain. Take a pic of the porcelain, and take a pic of the timing strap also. If you post high quality pics of these in decent light, there should be enough guys on here to help get you straightened out (and maybe even give a quick and dirty plug reading lesson for you if you want)
02-24-2017, 11:56 PM
#13
TECH Junkie
A lot of tracks (I know mine does at least) has enough room to coast and pull off to the side before you get your time slip. It's not ideal, but you can pull two plugs (one from each side) and put two fresh ones in so you can drive back.
After you tune it close off those two plugs, find a time so you can pull all 8. Then find which cylinder is the most temperamental, and tune off that one from there on out.
After you tune it close off those two plugs, find a time so you can pull all 8. Then find which cylinder is the most temperamental, and tune off that one from there on out.
03-05-2017, 10:40 AM
#15
Just to update. Finally got time to log WOT NA and car is running rich NA, last time i logged i only logged the nitrous run. I'm assuming this is due too me swapping out to bigger headers and true 3in duals. The AFR are showing about 11.8-.12.0. I'm going to get that dialed in with my tuner first, then test the kit again. I'm fighting an already rich tune.
03-05-2017, 12:09 PM
#16
Couple questions:
How much timing are you pulling?
Is the wideband consistent from motor to n2o pulls?
First off, do not fight detonation with more fuel. Do not wait to see knock on the sensors to pull more timing, it will be too late. For a 100 hit, I would pull timing back 5-6 to start at a safe point. Then while at the track adjust the fuel jet until you have the best ET with consistent 60' times. Then start plug pull runs to see how timing looks. You can not really chase the perfect plug, timing or A/F. The slip will tell you what the motor wants. I'm in the camp of keep timing safe and go up on nitrous jet size for more power, not try to run timing to the ragged edge.
How much timing are you pulling?
Is the wideband consistent from motor to n2o pulls?
First off, do not fight detonation with more fuel. Do not wait to see knock on the sensors to pull more timing, it will be too late. For a 100 hit, I would pull timing back 5-6 to start at a safe point. Then while at the track adjust the fuel jet until you have the best ET with consistent 60' times. Then start plug pull runs to see how timing looks. You can not really chase the perfect plug, timing or A/F. The slip will tell you what the motor wants. I'm in the camp of keep timing safe and go up on nitrous jet size for more power, not try to run timing to the ragged edge.
03-05-2017, 12:26 PM
#17
Couple questions:
How much timing are you pulling?
Is the wideband consistent from motor to n2o pulls?
First off, do not fight detonation with more fuel. Do not wait to see knock on the sensors to pull more timing, it will be too late. For a 100 hit, I would pull timing back 5-6 to start at a safe point. Then while at the track adjust the fuel jet until you have the best ET with consistent 60' times. Then start plug pull runs to see how timing looks. You can not really chase the perfect plug, timing or A/F. The slip will tell you what the motor wants. I'm in the camp of keep timing safe and go up on nitrous jet size for more power, not try to run timing to the ragged edge.
How much timing are you pulling?
Is the wideband consistent from motor to n2o pulls?
First off, do not fight detonation with more fuel. Do not wait to see knock on the sensors to pull more timing, it will be too late. For a 100 hit, I would pull timing back 5-6 to start at a safe point. Then while at the track adjust the fuel jet until you have the best ET with consistent 60' times. Then start plug pull runs to see how timing looks. You can not really chase the perfect plug, timing or A/F. The slip will tell you what the motor wants. I'm in the camp of keep timing safe and go up on nitrous jet size for more power, not try to run timing to the ragged edge.
03-05-2017, 01:18 PM
#18
Originally Posted by soloman369
Just to update. Finally got time to log WOT NA and car is running rich NA, last time i logged i only logged the nitrous run. I'm assuming this is due too me swapping out to bigger headers and true 3in duals. The AFR are showing about 11.8-.12.0. I'm going to get that dialed in with my tuner first, then test the kit again. I'm fighting an already rich tune.