WTF is going on here? (long)
06-30-2005, 10:09 PM
#1
WTF is going on here? (long) Ok, I bought a used wet kit from a member here that looks to be in excellent condition, and was supposedly installed but never used.
I had a NA tune several months ago, a/f was at 13:1 flat. When I got the kit, I put in the racetronix PNP kit with it.
Took the car to get it tuned (at a well known respected shop) and it was rich (11:1) on motor, we leaned it out to 12.5:1 and took out some timing (22-24 deg now). Hit it with a 150 shot, went PIG rich (10:1) and only made 65 hp. This is on a mustang dyno, so figure 75 hp. Tryed taking out the N2O filter, same results.
When I got home, I checked fuel pressure and it was 66 psi at idle and never budged while reving the motor pretty high.
I talked to the kit manufacturer and they said w/ that fuel pressure i should be able to run a 100 shot fuel jet & 900 psi bottle pressure (still w/ 150 N2O jet). Went to a local dynojet (small time operation) 2 days later and the car was lean (14:1) on motor. No changes made to the car other than changing fuel jets in the kit. I was pissed so I sprayed it anyway, there was a pretty big lean spike (I guess from taking the fuel lines apart) at about 15:1 and then went down to 13.5:1 and made 85 hp. Then I checked a plug and it showed detonation pretty badly, but the base ring was black.
Put the 150 shot fuel jet in, the big lean spike was pretty much gone, A/F went to 13:1 and made 80 hp. Too pissed off to check a plug this time.
I don't know if a wideband can be too far off, but the dynojet (2nd dyno) said he just got his computer stack and wideband stuff back from being calibrated.
At this point I have no idea what to do next. The company that makes the kit said to send it all to them and they will check it out free of charge, so I'm going to do that, and go from there. It seems the car needs to be tuned again which is a 200 mile drive
Oh yeah, full bottle, and I had to purge it down from 1100 psi to 900.
Wheres the power????
I did my best labeling the graphs, the mustang dyno's printer was running out of ink, and the dynojet guy only had a black and white printer.
I had a NA tune several months ago, a/f was at 13:1 flat. When I got the kit, I put in the racetronix PNP kit with it.
Took the car to get it tuned (at a well known respected shop) and it was rich (11:1) on motor, we leaned it out to 12.5:1 and took out some timing (22-24 deg now). Hit it with a 150 shot, went PIG rich (10:1) and only made 65 hp. This is on a mustang dyno, so figure 75 hp. Tryed taking out the N2O filter, same results.
When I got home, I checked fuel pressure and it was 66 psi at idle and never budged while reving the motor pretty high.
I talked to the kit manufacturer and they said w/ that fuel pressure i should be able to run a 100 shot fuel jet & 900 psi bottle pressure (still w/ 150 N2O jet). Went to a local dynojet (small time operation) 2 days later and the car was lean (14:1) on motor. No changes made to the car other than changing fuel jets in the kit. I was pissed so I sprayed it anyway, there was a pretty big lean spike (I guess from taking the fuel lines apart) at about 15:1 and then went down to 13.5:1 and made 85 hp. Then I checked a plug and it showed detonation pretty badly, but the base ring was black.
Put the 150 shot fuel jet in, the big lean spike was pretty much gone, A/F went to 13:1 and made 80 hp. Too pissed off to check a plug this time.
I don't know if a wideband can be too far off, but the dynojet (2nd dyno) said he just got his computer stack and wideband stuff back from being calibrated.
At this point I have no idea what to do next. The company that makes the kit said to send it all to them and they will check it out free of charge, so I'm going to do that, and go from there. It seems the car needs to be tuned again which is a 200 mile drive
Oh yeah, full bottle, and I had to purge it down from 1100 psi to 900.
Wheres the power????
I did my best labeling the graphs, the mustang dyno's printer was running out of ink, and the dynojet guy only had a black and white printer.
Last edited by calongo_SS; 06-30-2005 at 10:25 PM.
06-30-2005, 11:04 PM
#2
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It might be a shot in the dark, but I have a buddy that used to have an NX kit on his car. On a 150 shot it only gained like 4 MPH at the track. When he pulled the kit off, they tried blowing through the N20 line and it was plugged up. so he hooked it up backwards from the bottle to try and clear it out. There ended up being a valve core wedged inside of the line blocking the nitrous.
06-30-2005, 11:34 PM
#4
I was originally thinking an obstruction somewhereon the N2O side, when it was goin rich on spray. Now I'm going lean everywhere. I would say the 2nd dyno I was on had the screwed up wideband, but after looking at that plug and seeing all those black dots on the porcelian I'm not sure what to think.
The people who made the kit said they will flow test all the lines and tear the noid down and see if there's anything in it.
This shouldn't be so hard, it's not rocket science. Just 2 noids, some juice, some fuel, & some nossles, but it's really starting to irritate me.
The people who made the kit said they will flow test all the lines and tear the noid down and see if there's anything in it.
This shouldn't be so hard, it's not rocket science. Just 2 noids, some juice, some fuel, & some nossles, but it's really starting to irritate me.
07-01-2005, 02:10 AM
#5
Remember anytime you up your fuel press you trick the injectors into being bigger. Like the Ford 30lb'ers at our pressure flow 36lb's. A retune for that pressure is in order for best performance. If you want the math I can give it to you. It may be a contribuating problem.
07-01-2005, 03:36 AM
#6
Hey man, you must be the guy that Mark emailed me about. Ask him for the emails that I sent him regarding your car. If you can, get someone to scan it with HPtuners and send me a log and your bin. I can probably get you going.
Jay
Jay
07-01-2005, 08:19 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Robert56
Remember anytime you up your fuel press you trick the injectors into being bigger. Like the Ford 30lb'ers at our pressure flow 36lb's. A retune for that pressure is in order for best performance. If you want the math I can give it to you. It may be a contribuating problem.
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07-01-2005, 08:21 AM
#9
Originally Posted by itchygomey98
Hey man, you must be the guy that Mark emailed me about. Ask him for the emails that I sent him regarding your car. If you can, get someone to scan it with HPtuners and send me a log and your bin. I can probably get you going.
Jay
Jay
07-01-2005, 04:41 PM
#10
Well I talked to the tuner, and he said that I may be running rich at part throttle, and this is affecting the LTRM's at WOT, so both of the widebands could be correct. This is how I understood it anyway, I don't know much about tuning.
The kit will come off the car this weekend to be checked out by the manufacturer to see why it's only making 80 hp on a 150 shot.
The kit will come off the car this weekend to be checked out by the manufacturer to see why it's only making 80 hp on a 150 shot.
07-01-2005, 05:16 PM
#12
This is deffintly a tuning issue. The nitrous would have nothing to do with the NA numbers changing.There is something machanicaly wrong with the car or someone has something wrong in the tune. You will not be able to get the nitrous tune right until you figure out what is going on with the car.It will not hurt to send the system in for inspection but I would figure out whats wrong with the car for sure.
Dave
Dave
07-01-2005, 06:08 PM
#13
Dave,
If by numbers changing you mean the A/F changing, I think that is in the tune. As far as the hp #'s changing I think that is just the difference between a mustang dyno and a dynojet.
When I brought the car for the nitrous tune, all he did was full throttle tuning, no part throttle. At this point I didn't know how high my fuel pressure was. I'm thinking this is why the LTRM's got all out of whack and the a/f is changing.
I don't think there is anything mechanically or otherwise wrong with the car, I'm not throwing any codes and it seems to run well.
Kyle,
it looks like I'm gonna be out of town this weekend as well. My plan as of now is to get the kit checked out and take the car back to houston for a full tune, unless there is someone down here that can tune it. If the car still isn't making power after that, I guess I'll start checking out the motor.
If by numbers changing you mean the A/F changing, I think that is in the tune. As far as the hp #'s changing I think that is just the difference between a mustang dyno and a dynojet.
When I brought the car for the nitrous tune, all he did was full throttle tuning, no part throttle. At this point I didn't know how high my fuel pressure was. I'm thinking this is why the LTRM's got all out of whack and the a/f is changing.
I don't think there is anything mechanically or otherwise wrong with the car, I'm not throwing any codes and it seems to run well.
Kyle,
it looks like I'm gonna be out of town this weekend as well. My plan as of now is to get the kit checked out and take the car back to houston for a full tune, unless there is someone down here that can tune it. If the car still isn't making power after that, I guess I'll start checking out the motor.
07-03-2005, 04:37 PM
#14
Just another thought before I send the kit to get checked out. Anyone think I may be spraying through the converter? It's a tci 3500 2.5 str. The tuner said he thought the converter caught up w/ the spray. I sprayed it on the street twice, and it flashed a lot higher, but seemed to "catch up" as the tuner put it.
07-19-2005, 03:17 PM
#15
UPDATE:
I sent the kit in to TNT to get it checked out. They flowed the lines, and opened up the noids. The only problem they found was the piston in the fuel noid was a lil swollen & was replaced.
After trying it out again with the same results I called and talked to David. He mentioned the 90 degree bend on the inlet side of the N2O solenoid was not supposed to be there. I didn't know this as I bought the kit used. I got the right fitting, and wow, what a difference.
Since I bought the kit used I didn't know this fitting wasn't supposed to be there....
I sent the kit in to TNT to get it checked out. They flowed the lines, and opened up the noids. The only problem they found was the piston in the fuel noid was a lil swollen & was replaced.
After trying it out again with the same results I called and talked to David. He mentioned the 90 degree bend on the inlet side of the N2O solenoid was not supposed to be there. I didn't know this as I bought the kit used. I got the right fitting, and wow, what a difference.
Since I bought the kit used I didn't know this fitting wasn't supposed to be there....
