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Lean condition or not enough octane?

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Old 01-22-2006, 06:59 PM
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Default Lean condition or not enough octane?

Launched, got a killer 60', hit 2nd right at the shift light and then just before the 330 mark, she starts breakin up and I let off. Went back and pulled the plugs, and ate up the strap on the first plug on the drivers side and all the others were fine. I was thinking not enough octane (104 with a 300 shot on 11.5/1 compression and had 22 degrees timing in it), but i've been told, "Its NOT an octane problem thats gonna get you all of a sudden in the middle of a run. Most likely a lean condition." So what do you guys think? And I would think if it was from the lean spike from the initial hit it would've started breaking up before I got too the 330 mark. My laptop broke so I wasn't able to have autotap on it too keep an eye on the o2's, so I have no idea if it was goin lean or not, but no changes from the tune when I put it on the dyno and on the dyno after the initial lean spike it went too 10.1:1 a/f.

Thanks for any help guys, really appreciate it!
Old 01-22-2006, 09:08 PM
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What plugs are you using?
Old 01-22-2006, 09:13 PM
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NGK BP7EFS, it's what a TR7 would be if they made it.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:31 PM
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I think it could be either or. Had you used c16 or better...you likely would not have burned a plug. If you had 10 to 1 on the dyno thats great. But it would be nice to know for certain that your fuel system kept up for the entire run when the plug burning occured.

I would however step up to some real octane.
Then start datalogging eithe Af or fuel pressure or atleast start reading plugs more often.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:33 PM
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Devon you should know that an o2 sensor running on spiked gas or leaded race fuel is not accurate .I think you have a fuel starvation problem the farther you go worse it gets . I think your crazy to spray that much thru the manifold your gonna have major distribution problems .I know you have heard it before but you need a fogger so you can tune every cylinder individually and not have distribution issues get a dedicated fuel system for nitrous then you can let that thing eat .
Old 01-22-2006, 09:36 PM
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A stand alone would be nice to have.
Whats fuel system are you running right now?
Old 01-22-2006, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
I think it could be either or. Had you used c16 or better...you likely would not have burned a plug. If you had 10 to 1 on the dyno thats great. But it would be nice to know for certain that your fuel system kept up for the entire run when the plug burning occured.

I would however step up to some real octane.
Then start datalogging eithe Af or fuel pressure or atleast start reading plugs more often.
Yeah dude, i'm in the process of tryin too figure out open loop tuning right now so I can use some real gas! Started a thread in pcm diagnostic and tuning section asking how, cuz I did a search and nothing came up.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
A stand alone would be nice to have.
Whats fuel system are you running right now?
Racetronix intank pump with their harness, think I should add a boost a pump before I go back out?
Old 01-22-2006, 09:39 PM
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whats your total HP? You should be amking 450+ on motor and spraying a 300...lol...your walking a fine line there buddy!
Old 01-22-2006, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by laz
Devon you should know that an o2 sensor running on spiked gas or leaded race fuel is not accurate .I think you have a fuel starvation problem the farther you go worse it gets . I think your crazy to spray that much thru the manifold your gonna have major distribution problems .I know you have heard it before but you need a fogger so you can tune every cylinder individually and not have distribution issues get a dedicated fuel system for nitrous then you can let that thing eat .
I was running 104 unleaded, so the o2's should still be somewhat accurate on atap, but my laptop was screwed, so I coudln't datalog. I'll be getting a wideband before I go back out too!
Old 01-22-2006, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
whats your total HP? You should be amking 450+ on motor and spraying a 300...lol...your walking a fine line there buddy!
On both stages through the turbo 400 she put down 713 to the wheels.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:43 PM
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you may well be running out of fuel. A boost a pump should give another 100-150 hp worth of room.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:46 PM
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713 to the wheels through the TH400...LOL. I think you need more fuel pump.

Your making some good power man!
Old 01-22-2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
you may well be running out of fuel. A boost a pump should give another 100-150 hp worth of room.
Aight cool, i'll probably add one of them too!
Old 01-22-2006, 09:47 PM
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And more octane!
Old 01-22-2006, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
713 to the wheels through the TH400...LOL. I think you need more fuel pump.

Your making some good power man!
Thanks man, hehehe! I figured it would've shown on the dyno in the a/f if the pump couldn't handle it, like I said, initial lean spike, but then went too 10.1/1 a/f on the dyno's wideband and held there pretty steady till over 7000rpm and then it started goin back up a little toward 11/1.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:50 PM
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Here's my graph so you can see the a/f:
Attached Thumbnails Lean condition or not enough octane?-dyno-both-kits-smaller-.jpg  
Old 01-22-2006, 09:52 PM
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Not necessarily. I bet your dyno was over rather quickly

If you had the resorces a stand alone fuel tank really would be the way to go. That way you could put c16 or NOS 117 in the front tank and continue with 104 in the main tank.
Old 01-22-2006, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
Not necessarily. I bet your dyno was over rather quickly

If you had the resorces a stand alone fuel tank really would be the way to go. That way you could put c16 or NOS 117 in the front tank and continue with 104 in the main tank.
Yeah, i'll probably pick up one of nitro dave's standalone's soon, just gotta get the money together, I still gotta finish my safety stuff too and that's takin priority now, if it comes down too it, i'll get the safety stuff done and just hit the first stage 200 till I get a standalone.
Old 01-22-2006, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Loudmouth LS1
Launched, got a killer 60', hit 2nd right at the shift light and then just before the 330 mark, she starts breakin up and I let off. Went back and pulled the plugs, and ate up the strap on the first plug on the drivers side and all the others were fine. I was thinking not enough octane (104 with a 300 shot on 11.5/1 compression and had 22 degrees timing in it), but i've been told, "Its NOT an octane problem thats gonna get you all of a sudden in the middle of a run. Most likely a lean condition." So what do you guys think? And I would think if it was from the lean spike from the initial hit it would've started breaking up before I got too the 330 mark. My laptop broke so I wasn't able to have autotap on it too keep an eye on the o2's, so I have no idea if it was goin lean or not, but no changes from the tune when I put it on the dyno and on the dyno after the initial lean spike it went too 10.1:1 a/f.

Thanks for any help guys, really appreciate it!

Just get the stand alone system. When I would dyno on both kits every thing looked good, but at the track the fpss would shut down the spray at the 1/8. With the stand alone I have had no problems at all.



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