NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Ok I will let you know the video is not nitrous throu a clear tube yet does show how puddle-ing can not happen. In my opinion.
SPECS.
tube length is 6ft
Media flowing through tube is Water
Water pressure 140 psi
Amount of air flow = to 400 hp.
injector location is 2ft from inlet.
temp of surroundings room temp 80-76 degrees.

The walls look like they are getting covered with this fine mist of water. What is really is, is the fog moving down the pipe.
Just wanted a discussion
http://fjoracing.com/products/wateri...0Spray%203.wmv

Ricky

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

Methanol likes to flash vaporize at a reasonable temperature.
Mix in some -120*F nitrous and see what happens.

In all the discussions it has never been puddling as the main issue. Fuel simply clinging to walls can account for enough distribution problem on its own without actual puddles forming.
The main issue is having an intake manifold full of fuel vapor. Once the vapor is ignited there would be enough radiant heat inside the plenum to vaporize what is left along with separating the oxygen from the N2O.

Nothing intimidates the competition more than launching your hood into the air with a big flame-ball. The night videos are my favorite.

On a side note, I really like that methanol/water injection system.

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Agree the hood flying into the air but could be an *** whoopin if it landed on the other guys car. lol. But we already had a talk about why the car back fires, and where teh flame comes from. Just trying to change people terminology.
Track rep told me a promod style car at on of the events blew the scoop hi enough the announcer calls out 100.00 if someone can catch it. Must have gotten way up there.
Ricky

Gold Z

iTrader: (3)

The video supports my thoughts that as long as there is significant vaccum in the intake manifold there will be no puddling.

Z2K_MrJ

Intresting. hmm what if it was nitrous tho.wont know till ya try it. shurly you need decent pressure for it

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

I agree with White. People who use the term "puddling" havent got a clue....a wet and dry nitrous system can both backfire but because of the fuel in the intake of a wet system a backfire can be more violent. Puddling is a crock of ****, to sum it up....

A good test to prove or disprove the fuel distribution problems of a wet system that so many like to bring up would be to put a wideband on each exhaust tube. Ricky? You guys with the dollars should try this out. Personally I do not think fuel distribution becomes a problem until approx the 250 shot level....

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

I wonder what would happen if there was a couple 90*'s inline? Or better yet, what if it was a plenum under the runners, like the LSx platform manifold. I think puddling is fact and not fiction. Even NOS reconizes puddling, as well as few published books I have. Now, I am not trying to discount Ricky's input, however, we just see this issue differently (the debate goes on). I like to explain the under the runners plenum like a oil catch can. when it has to go down up and over the heavier particulates get left behind, the same principal of oil catch cans.
Robert

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

I affectionately call it the "fuel jacuzzi (tm)"

I can picture a couple of fat hairy guys kicked back in the plenum smoking cigars while bathing in gasoline.

I don't think the fuel puddles instantly, but there is enough evidence that suggests that it is puddling by the end of a 1/4 mile run.
Many people running wet kits get a common symptom of the engine wanting to die /stumbing when they deactivate the N2O and allow the throttle to close.
Assuming plenty of fuel hanging out in the plenum, the extreme low pressure (about as much vacuum as you'll ever see) when the throttle closes would tend to vaporize much of that fuel quickly sending you into extreme rich territory. That kind of rich could and I think does cause stumbling, dying, and misfires that translate into backfires after the traps.
The people who shift to neutral after the traps are the ones that seem to notice this most.

The puddling theory sounds much more credible a cause than anything else that's been dreamed up, but perhaps the injectors are just tired after a hard run down the track and they decide to take a break. yeah.

I don't think it's puddling that causes the explosions at the starting line, or the hood launches. I do think that puddling can happen after some time.

I also think the under-plenum intake design is a match made in heaven for fuel puddling. There's a perfect fuel collection area to keep it from running into the cylinders in liquid form. This is a great advantage over a carb-style intake and as long as there is no explosion then all is good!
They just need to make the LSX intakes with a functional blow-panel or give it flexible throttle blades so it can belch free that pesky MAF and toilet ducting.

Can anybody tell I've been drinking?

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm I like what I have read so far.. The puddle-ing, thing I might happen somewhere in a time line but surely not in a quater mile. As in the past I have shown just how fast mph the air is moving and just how little the time was from throttle body to exhaust. Now the stumble at the end of a track just needs to be data logged to show if its overly rich and or what is causing the stumble.

I might need to see if we have some clear tubing in 90' and maybe put together an overly large layout to scale as an ls1 intake. Then test again. This aint cheap time and tubbing but its worth looking at to help prove my theory. and remember that the video was water and only 400hp worth of air.

I am thinking of picking up a camaro in the near future to do some puddle-ing testing, personel fun and other toys.
Puddle-ing test; where I start makeing the system richer and richer and richer and try to achieve a backfire maybe 100 or 150 setting to start. Never hitting the nitrous below 3000 rpm in low gear or second gear.

Then put the correct tune up in a hit it at a stupidly low rpm. just for kicks. and great footage of a boommmmmm...

Then do the dry side of things. engage the system at a stupidly low rpm just to satisfy my own personel need to know.

And video everything. So anyone got a desent car for sale. Good old stock would work for me.. 99-00 or so.
sorry no silver 98's.......
Ricky

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

I like the idea of TRYING to create a backfire! Im one of those destructive personality types though.