how much nitrous can go in a 2 stage? - LS1TECH

Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Nitrous Oxide
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Nitrous Oxide
Installation | Tuning | Products

how much nitrous can go in a 2 stage?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2006, 06:25 PM   #1
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default how much nitrous can go in a 2 stage?

just trying to figure out if my goals in the end are still realistic.

have a gto which will probably never weight less then 3800LB's. My goal is to have a 2 stage dry to wet combo. im shooting for 8xx/8xx hp/tq and 9's. i realize i will need all the rear, fuel, forged engine, blah blah, question is, would it be safe to run 150/250 shots of nitrous or should i plan for a direct port as a second stage? just looking for opinions.

thanks
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 06:37 PM   #2
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

I think it can be done. I would use the old LS1 recipe of walbro 255 lph intank with hotwire kit and voltage blaster along with 42 pph injectors to make right around 700 rwhp. Then add a regular 150 shot wet with a stand alone fuel tank. If you dont want a stand alone fuel tank youll have to put a real fuel system in the car for tha much power.

We did do a 408 combo that made 490 rwhp on the nitrous tune and sprayed it with a 400 shot. It made 868 rwhp. The second stage was DP and it was also progressive. It was with cometic headgaskets ARP head studs and iron block. The rest of the build was pretty standard stuff.

If you arent going to bigger cubes I dont know if you will get your goal of 800+ rwtq. thats gonna be your killer unless you really tune to a nats *** and use plenty of octane. If you plan out the nitrous so its more progressive with rpm you should be able to acheive the 800 rwhp with a more mild 700 rwtq. You will have to have a cam and intake that will allow you to spin with some rpms.

But as for the question of can you get 800 rwhp with a dry and non DP wet kit. I believe so.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 07:28 PM   #3
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default

thx, i was only considering using the wet/dry at the track and just having the dry if i had some serious competition on the street. i want to go to a 370/383 ( eventually) but i get what your saying about the torque and thats reasonable, but a stand alone, would definently be a good idea i might look into later. thanks for the info
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 07:37 PM   #4
TECH Fanatic
 
227Hawk's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Turlock, Ca
Posts: 1,736
Default

My .02 is run A Direct Port as the wet for a 250H.P. Wet through the manifold will be problems in that size shot. Again i'm about to put on my 'FLAME' suit.
Hawk
__________________
2001 firehawk
looking for more power !
227Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 07:46 PM   #5
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

if the 383 makes 475 rwhp on motor....the dry makes another 200 for 675...then the wet only has to spray a 125 down the intake for 800 rwhp total. Thats not bad and doesnt really need a direct port.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 08:19 PM   #6
TECH Fanatic
 
227Hawk's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Turlock, Ca
Posts: 1,736
Default

I'm confused the original question was a 150/ 250 wet ??
I still stand by my.02 on a 250 wet shot.
Hawk
__________________
2001 firehawk
looking for more power !
227Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 08:22 PM   #7
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default

EDIT : i was under the impression that it was best to use a dry hit first...off the line and then a wet stage maybe in second gear. also that the wet shot would be a larger one? can you elaborate on this? a 200 dry/125 wet is diferent then what i had thaught
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 08:23 PM   #8
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

I agree...a 250 is too much. Im just saying if he plans on using a dry/wet combo it can probably be done without DP. Use the FJO dual stage progressive and your good to go as far as controlling how it all comes in.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:06 PM   #9
TECH Fanatic
 
227Hawk's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Turlock, Ca
Posts: 1,736
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosm187
EDIT : i was under the impression that it was best to use a dry hit first...off the line and then a wet stage maybe in second gear. also that the wet shot would be a larger one? can you elaborate on this? a 200 dry/125 wet is diferent then what i had thaught
You can hit a 200 dry but with injectors and a pump you will lean spike!
That's alot of N20 for the mAF to pick-up.
Hawk
__________________
2001 firehawk
looking for more power !
227Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:12 PM   #10
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default

so i guess i should plan out for a dp, and leave the dry ( already have it) for street/ 2nd stage track use.
last question- with a dp, if i were to use a 200+ shot, is a fjo controller a must? i would imagine soo, i have a trick WS with multi gear lockout, or would that be no good?
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:18 PM   #11
TECH Fanatic
 
227Hawk's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Turlock, Ca
Posts: 1,736
Default

The Dry shot is better used as a first stage in my.02. I use mine on the street
as a compromise for power. And as for setting up a D.P. the FJO is one hell of
a controller!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hawk
__________________
2001 firehawk
looking for more power !
227Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:18 PM   #12
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

you can hit a 200 dry not problem with 42 lb injectors and a walbro intank with hotwire kit. No lean spike. I have done 3 of these setups and none ever had a lean spike.

I used to run a 300 all dry. never once had a lean spike.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:20 PM   #13
TECH Fanatic
 
227Hawk's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Turlock, Ca
Posts: 1,736
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
you can hit a 200 dry not problem with 42 lb injectors and a walbro intank with hotwire kit. No lean spike. I have done 3 of these setups and none ever had a lean spike.

I used to run a 300 all dry. never once had a lean spike.
I'm not that 'Ballsy' I leave my dry set-ups on my car below 175 H.P.
And i'm running 42#s too. I'm just stating my.02. I do like to play it safe.
At least as safe as i can on spray.
Hawk
__________________
2001 firehawk
looking for more power !
227Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:23 PM   #14
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

I think your trick switch would work. Its certainly not as fine of a control device as the FJO but its better than an all at once on/off setup. If you hit it with a 150 dry and 150 wet you may get away with it. But you have to monitor the TQ levels and decide at what rpm you are going to hit each. I would hit the 150 dry first at 3300 or so and then the 150 wet at say 4900 and spin to 6900 or so. More if possible but I have no clue what your setup will be on motor.

If you used the FJO you could just ramp each almost seamlessly together with rpm.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:30 PM   #15
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default

reading off nitrous outlet site, the FJO is everything the trick is, but can progressively control it? a little confused, not sure if it has lock out and dual stage control, thinking about swapping the trick for it, possibly.

thanks
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:37 PM   #16
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

they both control two stages. Its just that the FJO can control each stage progressively...either in a time based more or rpm based mode. Both have first gear lockout. the trick switch is a nice little unit for sure. But If I were reaching for the HP levels you will be reaching for...rpm based progressive is about the only way I would attempt that. You will need precise control of your tq levels in the midrange rpms.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:44 PM   #17
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

let me put it too you this way. if you want 800 rwhp and you make 475 rwhp on motr. Thats a 325 shot. If you just had an all in one on/off nitrous setup and activated it at 3300 rpm...your tq would probably be 900+ rwtq. If you use your trick switch and seperate tthat 325 shot over 2 stages based on rpm at say 150 shot at 3300 and another 150 at 5000...the Tq will be substantially lower...estimate around 800 rwtq. If you use rpm progressive like the FJO you can further control the rate that the 325 shot comes on and probably get that Tq as low as 700 rwhp. All three scenarios will make that 800 rwhp at its peak. Its just dividing up the hit so the tq peak is lowered.
Tq is a direct measure of cylinder pressure and high cylinder pressure is what sets of bad things. So control is the name of the game in reaching for high hp.
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:44 PM   #18
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default

sweet. thanks, im def. ganna do that when time comes. appriciate the knowledge from both of you. nice rides
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 09:51 PM   #19
Launching!
 
rosm187's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: brandon
Posts: 224
Send a message via AIM to rosm187
Default

got it, the progressive will make it alot easier on the motor, and pretty much everything else...trans...rear...ect. you have enlightened me thanks
__________________
MODs: Black ROH Drift R's 18's with 245/275 toyos : dark tint : : k/n intake : kooks LTs w/out cats : magnaflow exhaust : 3200 fuddle converter : .62 jet....
new PB
60' 1.66
1/8 7.425@93.7
1/4 11.61@117

04 GTO
rosm187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 10:19 PM   #20
Iron Destruction Director
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Port Richey
Posts: 4,266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rosm187
got it, the progressive will make it alot easier on the motor, and pretty much everything else...trans...rear...ect. you have enlightened me thanks

Exactly!
__________________
2004 Z06 Commemorative Edition Corvette Bone Stock...for now
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z213/alljonz/Z16017-1.jpg
383LQ4SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2006, 10:19 PM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



Join Ls1Tech

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details