Hitting the dyno tomorrow morning..
06-03-2006, 02:51 AM
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Hitting the dyno tomorrow morning.. Well, since our track is closed and us LSx Racers are jonesing for something...we decided to hit the rollers. I will hopefully get to make 6 pulls (2x NA, 1x 1Stage open, 1x 1Stage open + 50 or 75, 2x Both Stages Open (about 280shot)). I decided not to pick up any race gas, hopefully wont be a fatal choice. I have tuned since the last outing when I roasted all the plugs. And big thanks to my brother Andrew for reminding me to get new plugs. I will install the new TR-6 gapped at .030" tomorrow morning ~5:30am, then time prevailing wash the damn car and link up with the crew to get this going. I hope for the best obviously. Will post up the graphs as soon as I get home.
Charlie
*Added Graphs*
First up, NA vs Nitrous bests. Not sure WTF is up with the WB, but I dont believe it was claibrated, or maybe they could reconfigure the axis so that x.xVolts = x.x:1 afr in the single digits.
And then here you can see the AFR just bottoms the heck out
So guess my tune is working...now to tweak it enough to be worth a **** someday. 
Charlie
*Added Graphs*
First up, NA vs Nitrous bests. Not sure WTF is up with the WB, but I dont believe it was claibrated, or maybe they could reconfigure the axis so that x.xVolts = x.x:1 afr in the single digits.
And then here you can see the AFR just bottoms the heck out
So guess my tune is working...now to tweak it enough to be worth a **** someday. Last edited by CAT3; 06-04-2006 at 03:56 AM.
06-03-2006, 10:05 PM
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Ok, preface:
Timing at WOT only 16* for all runs.
AFR NA was a tad rich at 12.0:1 and on sauce, well, it rocketed to the bottom 10:1 and we're sure it was a little richer than that.
TR-6 Plugs gapped at .030" (or about since it was 5am when I was installing them, but none burnt up ).
Pump gas w. a cheater bottle of NOS Off Road Formula Octane Booster (helped to keep my nuts from sweating too much).
I am waiting for the coordinator to get the dyno file, and printouts since I had to cut out early, and I cant figure out how to transfer the video from my camera either? Anyway, I got in my two NA pulls, think tops was 385rwhp. These two runs were back to back, and yes on the same tuning parameters as the nitrous pulls. We shut the car down, and I installed a jet into the second stage, .024" and stage 1 was open (jetless) Ran it around 550rwhp. Swapped to a .047" jet made 567rwhp, swapped to .058" and pulled 578rwhp, then went jetless on both stages pulled 602rwhp. Those numbers are IIRC, once the graphs are linked I will post. All nitrous pulls were made in a matter of 6minutes from 1st to last, only letting the car idle at a stop so I could hot-swap jets, this was also my call.
Things we noted, the AFR did not drop off to the lean side, so the fuel system can handle it. The lid popped the latches off every nitrous run, letting nitrous escape out the front and sides of the lid (and yeah some went out the fittings I neglected to glue n screw). Where I thought the dry NOS noid would push 140rwhp, it apparently does not push that..so I broke the 600hp bar, now it will be time to get my new setup ordered up. I am getting the main course in wet shot form, with a dry appetizer for the tuning. Once I rewrite the tune info onto a 2002 Operating System, I will be able to tune the car to see the dry shot, pull the timing and add the right fuel to set it up for the main meal. Oh well, I'll have to settle with 600 for now.
Charlie p.s. once I can get the video DL, I will be sending to a friend to edit for me then posting it. Not like you aint seen a fricken car on the rollers before!
Timing at WOT only 16* for all runs.
AFR NA was a tad rich at 12.0:1 and on sauce, well, it rocketed to the bottom 10:1 and we're sure it was a little richer than that.
TR-6 Plugs gapped at .030" (or about since it was 5am when I was installing them, but none burnt up
).Pump gas w. a cheater bottle of NOS Off Road Formula Octane Booster (helped to keep my nuts from sweating too much).
I am waiting for the coordinator to get the dyno file, and printouts since I had to cut out early, and I cant figure out how to transfer the video from my camera either? Anyway, I got in my two NA pulls, think tops was 385rwhp. These two runs were back to back, and yes on the same tuning parameters as the nitrous pulls. We shut the car down, and I installed a jet into the second stage, .024" and stage 1 was open (jetless) Ran it around 550rwhp. Swapped to a .047" jet made 567rwhp, swapped to .058" and pulled 578rwhp, then went jetless on both stages pulled 602rwhp. Those numbers are IIRC, once the graphs are linked I will post. All nitrous pulls were made in a matter of 6minutes from 1st to last, only letting the car idle at a stop so I could hot-swap jets, this was also my call.
Things we noted, the AFR did not drop off to the lean side, so the fuel system can handle it. The lid popped the latches off every nitrous run, letting nitrous escape out the front and sides of the lid (and yeah some went out the fittings I neglected to glue n screw). Where I thought the dry NOS noid would push 140rwhp, it apparently does not push that..so I broke the 600hp bar, now it will be time to get my new setup ordered up. I am getting the main course in wet shot form, with a dry appetizer for the tuning. Once I rewrite the tune info onto a 2002 Operating System, I will be able to tune the car to see the dry shot, pull the timing and add the right fuel to set it up for the main meal. Oh well, I'll have to settle with 600 for now.
Charlie p.s. once I can get the video DL, I will be sending to a friend to edit for me then posting it. Not like you aint seen a fricken car on the rollers before!
06-04-2006, 01:50 AM
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Theres already a post about that, scroll down shortie! Besides, other than being pathetically low, I dont know what the #'s were, your job was to get the data.
06-04-2006, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CAT3
Theres already a post about that, scroll down shortie! Besides, other than being pathetically low, I dont know what the #'s were, your job was to get the data.
http://media.putfile.com/CAT3-NA
http://media.putfile.com/CAT3-small-shot
http://media.putfile.com/CAT3-big-shot
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06-04-2006, 11:20 PM
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Thanks. The Nitrous runs started at 3500 for a couple and then 3800 for the last one. The graphs are **** though, we had the same issue during the last Dyno Day. Thats why I asked them for the file, but after DL Dynojets program and looking at the file, I am thinking its not the shop operator, but something like the dyno computer being old or whatever..skips and pieces missing, but when you look at it on the screen immediately following the pull it looks complete.
The converter does has an anti-balloning plate IIRC from my chats with ATI, but it was not meant for nitrous at all. The tech asked how much I planned on spraying, and I was saying 300 in the end, he was like hell no, that converter is not going to like it. On the track NA it pulls fine, not great but fine. On da sauce, the converter feels like a slipping trans, kind of reaching a plateau or something, tech said yep, thats what'll feel like. So, I will getting a nitrous friendly 3500stall for the TH350 either from Fuddle, Continental or NCRC...kind of like how much do I have to spend on it...all 3 are reliable, and can handle it, but as they get pricer I start to wonder "do I really NEED a new TC?" I know I do so....
The converter does has an anti-balloning plate IIRC from my chats with ATI, but it was not meant for nitrous at all. The tech asked how much I planned on spraying, and I was saying 300 in the end, he was like hell no, that converter is not going to like it. On the track NA it pulls fine, not great but fine. On da sauce, the converter feels like a slipping trans, kind of reaching a plateau or something, tech said yep, thats what'll feel like. So, I will getting a nitrous friendly 3500stall for the TH350 either from Fuddle, Continental or NCRC...kind of like how much do I have to spend on it...all 3 are reliable, and can handle it, but as they get pricer I start to wonder "do I really NEED a new TC?" I know I do so....
06-05-2006, 11:01 PM
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The graph looks alot like mine. I'll pull up the graph at the shop tomorrow. My TCI 3800 doesn't have a anti balloning plate and my graph starts at like 4400 on motor and 5400 on a 250 shot if I remember correctly. I'll check and make sure tomorrow.
06-05-2006, 11:22 PM
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Charlie no wonder your so fast, 6xxhp is awsome. I hope to be getting in that area this summer, however, the IRS is way up my azz. So, I am running a little behind on the cash thing as they have siezed all my $$ that they can find, hehehehe. Great numbers and well deserved, you put a lot of time and effort into it. What wet kit are you going with? I have been playing with the idea for awhile to make my 3rd stage wet, a MAF kit or a plate...
Robert
Robert
06-05-2006, 11:31 PM
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No wet...just the two dry seen in my sig pic. 5177 dry mutt. I need to get a more efficient converter, this one is slipping about 26% last time I used a TC Slip Calculator...OMG that sux.
06-06-2006, 12:06 AM
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Robert, I havent converted, or changed anything yet. This is just the dry mutt. I actually wish I had a TC worth a **** in the car. But, I dont know what the bottle pressure was either, I had to ship most my stuff already no gauge or heater. This bottle was filled a couple months ago sitting under the bed, so thought I might as well empty it out, legally 
I am waiting on some feedback on a new setup before I make the call, plate, bar, DP or ultra custom....details soon.
I am waiting on some feedback on a new setup before I make the call, plate, bar, DP or ultra custom....details soon.
06-06-2006, 12:12 AM
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This is from ATI site:
Fuel & Blown Torque Converters
All ATI 8-inch converters will handle up to approximately 850HP in most cases engines that utilize nitrous, superchargers, turbo systems or contain a stroke of over 4 inches can benefit from using ATI's Fuel & Blown family of converters. These converters are available in 9" for motors generating 850HP to 1100HP and a 10" for motors creating over 1100HP.
All of ATI's Fuel & Blown converters contain an investment cast cover for decreased ballooning under extreme racing conditions and a 22-element sprag with double cage construction that maintains converter alignment and precision when you need it most.
Unfortunately I have this converter:
Treemaster & "MRT" Torque Converters
This converter is designed for foot-brake racers who demand high performance on the racetrack and durability for street use. ATI's Treemaster Converter is the choice of racers with motors producing up to approximately 850HP.
A trans-brake racer competing with a motor that contains a 3.5" inch stroke or smaller can take advantage of the 8-inch Treemaster "MRT" converter. The Treemaster "MRT+" converter is designed specifically for motors with 3.5" - 4" stroke.
The "MRT", or Minimum Reaction Time, is built to take advantage of the torque curve of your engine and the available gear ratios of your car. Specific stator designs are used to maximize free speed when up against the converter and instant lock up when using the transmission brake. The "MRT" also contains a race developed investment cast cover that is twice as thick as the OEM stamped cover to decrease ballooning of the converter under extreme racing conditions and to increase shifting performance.
So, guess no on the anti-balloning plate, but the cast cover may hold? And the tech said this TC is not for nitrous, but recommended another line, which I see would be the one directly above...Fuel & Blown. Oh well, looking into Fuddle, Continental, NCRC now.
Fuel & Blown Torque Converters
All ATI 8-inch converters will handle up to approximately 850HP in most cases engines that utilize nitrous, superchargers, turbo systems or contain a stroke of over 4 inches can benefit from using ATI's Fuel & Blown family of converters. These converters are available in 9" for motors generating 850HP to 1100HP and a 10" for motors creating over 1100HP.
All of ATI's Fuel & Blown converters contain an investment cast cover for decreased ballooning under extreme racing conditions and a 22-element sprag with double cage construction that maintains converter alignment and precision when you need it most.
Unfortunately I have this converter:
Treemaster & "MRT" Torque Converters
This converter is designed for foot-brake racers who demand high performance on the racetrack and durability for street use. ATI's Treemaster Converter is the choice of racers with motors producing up to approximately 850HP.
A trans-brake racer competing with a motor that contains a 3.5" inch stroke or smaller can take advantage of the 8-inch Treemaster "MRT" converter. The Treemaster "MRT+" converter is designed specifically for motors with 3.5" - 4" stroke.
The "MRT", or Minimum Reaction Time, is built to take advantage of the torque curve of your engine and the available gear ratios of your car. Specific stator designs are used to maximize free speed when up against the converter and instant lock up when using the transmission brake. The "MRT" also contains a race developed investment cast cover that is twice as thick as the OEM stamped cover to decrease ballooning of the converter under extreme racing conditions and to increase shifting performance.
So, guess no on the anti-balloning plate, but the cast cover may hold? And the tech said this TC is not for nitrous, but recommended another line, which I see would be the one directly above...Fuel & Blown. Oh well, looking into Fuddle, Continental, NCRC now.