N2O timing - LS1TECH

Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Nitrous Oxide
Log In 
Search


Nitrous Oxide
Installation | Tuning | Products


N2O timing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-21-2007, 06:29 PM   #1
TECH Fanatic
 
mellowyellow's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dragging 408's
Posts: 1,790
Default N2O timing

This may be a stupid ? but what is the reason for taking timing out when running N2O ? What can it hurt if you don't ?
__________________
Not a show pony!!!!
mellowyellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2007, 06:39 PM   #2
TECH Senior Member
 
Robert56's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 9,557
Default

The cylinder pressures are increased so much that it creates extra heat and leads to deteonation.
Here's the results of to much timing for a given hit.
Busted ringland,
Click the image to open in full size.

Resulting piston melt down,
Click the image to open in full size.

Cylinder damage that ruined block,
Click the image to open in full size.

Head damage, but salvageable,
Click the image to open in full size.

Plug damage, however, just clean them up and re-gap for another dozen passes,
Click the image to open in full size.

Robert
__________________
'02 Z06, 408 LQ9, Direct Port Dry and 3-Stgs on stk PCM,
644rwhp 718rwtq-old setup
http://www.fquick.com/robert56

Robert56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2007, 08:23 PM   #3
Staging Lane
 
jares99's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 14
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 69
Default

Are you selling those spark plugs I am looking for a good set....LOL
__________________
_______________________________________
99 A4 Lid, LTs, Ory, FRTA, SLP catback, Custom tune
jares99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2007, 08:29 PM   #4
TECH Veteran
 
BayAreaSS's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 10
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bay Area, CA (Pittsburg)
Posts: 4,235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jares99
Are you selling those spark plugs I am looking for a good set....LOL
__________________
BayAreaSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2007, 09:06 PM   #5
TECH Fanatic
 
mellowyellow's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Dragging 408's
Posts: 1,790
Default

Ok so a buddy is running *31 timing with a 100 shot ...Is he at risk ?
__________________
Not a show pony!!!!
mellowyellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 01:21 PM   #6
11 Second Club
 
LostCauseZ06's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogden, Utah
Posts: 1,294
Send a message via MSN to LostCauseZ06
Default

depends on his mods/ if hes detonating... if he detonates on spray he needs to pull timing. i run about 28 degrees on my 200-250 hits. rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 100 hp shot
__________________
2002 Z06 Corvette
HPE Iron 408 Forged Shortblock | Patriot stage 3+ heads W/hand porting by Speed inc | 250/255 615/619 on a 111 LSA | Full Bolt Ons
LostCauseZ06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 03:50 PM   #7
6 & 8 Second Club
 
mrdragster1970's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Illinois, RT 66 dragway area
Posts: 2,285
Default

.

Some use 2 degrees per 50, and some use 3 per 100. Start safe and read plugs every pass to watch the changes.

.
__________________


Used BBC-Dragrace-Trucks-Trailers 4 sale, private party personal items only. Parts For Sale **Added stuff 4 sale**
"Testing-Kind of boring, No N2O, only 1.10's 60 footers" Click here to see Video . .Pictures of '70 1/2 Rally Sport Photo's
For my babies, we will always remember In memory of Chris Costa, you will never meet a nicer guy. I will never forget your kindness, when I needed it.
mrdragster1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 05:17 PM   #8
8 second mod
 
Noyzee's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 37
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Side Performance! mASShole
Posts: 17,882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCauseZ06
depends on his mods/ if hes detonating... if he detonates on spray he needs to pull timing. i run about 28 degrees on my 200-250 hits. rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 100 hp shot
28 on 250 wow
__________________
Junk Yard Dawg set up, stock motor, stock ls6 heads cam only. 9.32 @ 142 on 200 shot 1.39 60' (best 60 with this set up was 1.31)
427 LSX 250 shot 8.7 @ 155 (9.7 @ 141 NA)TEA Trick flows!!
Old setups- 346 300 shot 9.40 @142 402 9.0 147
thanks to
EAST SIDE Performance, Nitro Dave, speed inc, dyno tune, TEA (for a sick set of heads) etc
other rides: 03 Z06, 72 chevy P/u, 08 2500 hd D-Max 6.6, 86 Harley.26' Checkmate ZT NOYZEE RACING!!!
Noyzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 05:38 PM   #9
11 Second Club
 
LostCauseZ06's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogden, Utah
Posts: 1,294
Send a message via MSN to LostCauseZ06
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyzee
28 on 250 wow

haha to be honest the only time my engine has EVER knocked was when i was running out of fuel pump.... ive had my timing upwards of 32-33 degrees on my NA tune with no knock... no power gains... but no knock either


iron block rocks. ive heard that iron blocks love timing for the most part... but meh, all motors are different
__________________
2002 Z06 Corvette
HPE Iron 408 Forged Shortblock | Patriot stage 3+ heads W/hand porting by Speed inc | 250/255 615/619 on a 111 LSA | Full Bolt Ons
LostCauseZ06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 05:42 PM   #10
8 second mod
 
Noyzee's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 37
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Side Performance! mASShole
Posts: 17,882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCauseZ06
haha to be honest the only time my engine has EVER knocked was when i was running out of fuel pump.... ive had my timing upwards of 32-33 degrees on my NA tune with no knock... no power gains... but no knock either


iron block rocks. ive heard that iron blocks love timing for the most part... but meh, all motors are different
yhea 32* on na tune fine, but 28* with 250 worth of spray!!
just because it shows no knock doesnt mean much.
get a bore a scope and check out your pistions ect.
thatsalot of timming.
race gas?
__________________
Junk Yard Dawg set up, stock motor, stock ls6 heads cam only. 9.32 @ 142 on 200 shot 1.39 60' (best 60 with this set up was 1.31)
427 LSX 250 shot 8.7 @ 155 (9.7 @ 141 NA)TEA Trick flows!!
Old setups- 346 300 shot 9.40 @142 402 9.0 147
thanks to
EAST SIDE Performance, Nitro Dave, speed inc, dyno tune, TEA (for a sick set of heads) etc
other rides: 03 Z06, 72 chevy P/u, 08 2500 hd D-Max 6.6, 86 Harley.26' Checkmate ZT NOYZEE RACING!!!
Noyzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 06:12 PM   #11
Giggity Giggity
 
brad8266's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 23
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Watertown, NY
Posts: 8,797
Send a message via AIM to brad8266 Send a message via Yahoo to brad8266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyzee
yhea 32* on na tune fine, but 28* with 250 worth of spray!!
just because it shows no knock doesnt mean much.
get a bore a scope and check out your pistions ect.
thatsalot of timming.
race gas?


28 degrees on a 250 hit is way too much.
__________________
2000 T/A, M6, Black
Forged 347, H/C/N2O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed Bird View Post
LS1tech mods are like the C.I.A. you can quote me on that lol
brad8266 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 06:30 PM   #12
8 second mod
 
Noyzee's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 37
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Side Performance! mASShole
Posts: 17,882
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brad8266


28 degrees on a 250 hit is way too much.
its an iron block tho
__________________
Junk Yard Dawg set up, stock motor, stock ls6 heads cam only. 9.32 @ 142 on 200 shot 1.39 60' (best 60 with this set up was 1.31)
427 LSX 250 shot 8.7 @ 155 (9.7 @ 141 NA)TEA Trick flows!!
Old setups- 346 300 shot 9.40 @142 402 9.0 147
thanks to
EAST SIDE Performance, Nitro Dave, speed inc, dyno tune, TEA (for a sick set of heads) etc
other rides: 03 Z06, 72 chevy P/u, 08 2500 hd D-Max 6.6, 86 Harley.26' Checkmate ZT NOYZEE RACING!!!
Noyzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 06:42 PM   #13
Launching!
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntington Beach CA
Posts: 217
Default

The main reason to retard timing is because nitrous increases the burn rate. So to keep the point where everything is burned completely (around 17 degrees ATDC) you need to pull timing out. Generally 2 per 50 on 100 octane or lower is a good starting point and 3 per 100 on something like C16 or equivalent is pretty safe.
srsnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 07:15 PM   #14
Giggity Giggity
 
brad8266's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 23
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Watertown, NY
Posts: 8,797
Send a message via AIM to brad8266 Send a message via Yahoo to brad8266
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srsnow
The main reason to retard timing is because nitrous increases the burn rate. So to keep the point where everything is burned completely (around 17 degrees ATDC) you need to pull timing out.
__________________
2000 T/A, M6, Black
Forged 347, H/C/N2O

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbed Bird View Post
LS1tech mods are like the C.I.A. you can quote me on that lol
brad8266 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2007, 09:28 PM   #15
TECH Senior Member
 
Robert56's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 9,557
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCauseZ06
haha to be honest the only time my engine has EVER knocked was when i was running out of fuel pump.... ive had my timing upwards of 32-33 degrees on my NA tune with no knock... no power gains... but no knock either


iron block rocks. ive heard that iron blocks love timing for the most part... but meh, all motors are different
Really the Iron block has no bearing on much timing can or should be run. 28* is waaaaaay to much, imo. Just because you haven't had a melt down like above doesn't mean it's correct. On my 408 at 300 I will be starting at around 16* of timing. On my successfull many runs at 200/250 on my ls6 I was running 22* or less and race gas. The above melt down showed no signs of KR, nor did not make any rattling noise, the silent killer.
Anyway, you have any dyno numbers or track times on your combo, very similar to what I am putting together?
Robert
__________________
'02 Z06, 408 LQ9, Direct Port Dry and 3-Stgs on stk PCM,
644rwhp 718rwtq-old setup
http://www.fquick.com/robert56

Robert56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 10:25 AM   #16
11 Second Club
 
LostCauseZ06's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogden, Utah
Posts: 1,294
Send a message via MSN to LostCauseZ06
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert56
Really the Iron block has no bearing on much timing can or should be run. 28* is waaaaaay to much, imo. Just because you haven't had a melt down like above doesn't mean it's correct. On my 408 at 300 I will be starting at around 16* of timing. On my successfull many runs at 200/250 on my ls6 I was running 22* or less and race gas. The above melt down showed no signs of KR, nor did not make any rattling noise, the silent killer.
Anyway, you have any dyno numbers or track times on your combo, very similar to what I am putting together?
Robert

hrmm... thats very interesting, thats like no timing lol ive sprayed the 200 hit in my car numerous times, hell i even sprayed the 200 on my NA tune once on my old pump but ill admit that i did melt 2 plugs (1 and 7) thanks to my rails being starved. the rest of the plugs looked solidly awesome.


i have had my heads off probably 4 times, popped head gaskets, new valves installed, all sorts of fun stuff but my pistons look like they are brand new minus #1 having a small piece of ground strap embedded in it



car put down 480 RWHP and 630 RWHP on the 150 hit through the plate kit. Car was running less than optimum with some problems ( 2 dicked up valves you can see my other thread about it)


im trapping 118 MPH with my horrible driving skillz @ 9500 DA naturally aspirated. i havent ran it again with the spray at the track because i dont want a cage.
__________________
2002 Z06 Corvette
HPE Iron 408 Forged Shortblock | Patriot stage 3+ heads W/hand porting by Speed inc | 250/255 615/619 on a 111 LSA | Full Bolt Ons
LostCauseZ06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 10:35 AM   #17
11 Second Club
 
LostCauseZ06's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 4
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ogden, Utah
Posts: 1,294
Send a message via MSN to LostCauseZ06
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyzee
yhea 32* on na tune fine, but 28* with 250 worth of spray!!
just because it shows no knock doesnt mean much.
get a bore a scope and check out your pistions ect.
thatsalot of timming.
race gas?

btw.. to be further flamed.... i have NEVER run race gas in my car


heres a vid of my car on the 200 hit (old nozzle kit) pump gas, and i think i was actually running closer to 30 degrees on this run. it was before we tinkered around and found a sweet spot NA @ 28.5. Dont mind the language or the fact i sound like a hillbilly haha i had the flu and was racing my best friend who thought his 383 LE2 LT1 was the fastest car around

http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...asevsJason.flv



in other words.. i have never had the need to pull any timing for the most part, my NA tune is my spray tune
__________________
2002 Z06 Corvette
HPE Iron 408 Forged Shortblock | Patriot stage 3+ heads W/hand porting by Speed inc | 250/255 615/619 on a 111 LSA | Full Bolt Ons
LostCauseZ06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 11:04 AM   #18
8 second mod
 
Noyzee's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 37
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Side Performance! mASShole
Posts: 17,882
Default

head gaskets poped? try taking out some timming. lol

weird question here, but 118 at 9500 da with 480 rwhp thats bad!!
i went 128 with my z on spray which is about the same rwhp, i was in about 4000 da
my car is stock as a rock.
we also went 121 with my buddies full weight f-body with 420 rwhp and atleast 300 pounds more then a vett.
sounds strange like somthing isntright on, but its your car you know it better then we would.
__________________
Junk Yard Dawg set up, stock motor, stock ls6 heads cam only. 9.32 @ 142 on 200 shot 1.39 60' (best 60 with this set up was 1.31)
427 LSX 250 shot 8.7 @ 155 (9.7 @ 141 NA)TEA Trick flows!!
Old setups- 346 300 shot 9.40 @142 402 9.0 147
thanks to
EAST SIDE Performance, Nitro Dave, speed inc, dyno tune, TEA (for a sick set of heads) etc
other rides: 03 Z06, 72 chevy P/u, 08 2500 hd D-Max 6.6, 86 Harley.26' Checkmate ZT NOYZEE RACING!!!
Noyzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 11:10 AM   #19
12 Second Club
 
CamTom12's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 1
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Clarksville, TN
Posts: 1,369
Send a message via AIM to CamTom12
Default

Nitrous increases the speed of the flame front, so you're bringing the advance back to properly time the pressure spike to the retreating piston
__________________
--Cameron
2002 WS.6 M6 - Christine
H/C

Motorcycle for sale! Updated link!
CamTom12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2007, 11:14 AM   #20
8 second mod
 
Noyzee's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 37
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: East Side Performance! mASShole
Posts: 17,882
Default

camtom rules!!! come see me again some day bro


sorry, thread hijack
__________________
Junk Yard Dawg set up, stock motor, stock ls6 heads cam only. 9.32 @ 142 on 200 shot 1.39 60' (best 60 with this set up was 1.31)
427 LSX 250 shot 8.7 @ 155 (9.7 @ 141 NA)TEA Trick flows!!
Old setups- 346 300 shot 9.40 @142 402 9.0 147
thanks to
EAST SIDE Performance, Nitro Dave, speed inc, dyno tune, TEA (for a sick set of heads) etc
other rides: 03 Z06, 72 chevy P/u, 08 2500 hd D-Max 6.6, 86 Harley.26' Checkmate ZT NOYZEE RACING!!!
Noyzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
btdc, ls1, n2o, pass, plugs, pulling, ram, stealth, timing, timming


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


 

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details