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Old 05-21-2007, 06:29 PM   #1
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Default N2O timing

This may be a stupid ? but what is the reason for taking timing out when running N2O ? What can it hurt if you don't ?
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Old 05-21-2007, 06:39 PM   #2
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The cylinder pressures are increased so much that it creates extra heat and leads to deteonation.
Here's the results of to much timing for a given hit.
Busted ringland,


Resulting piston melt down,


Cylinder damage that ruined block,


Head damage, but salvageable,


Plug damage, however, just clean them up and re-gap for another dozen passes,


Robert
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:23 PM   #3
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Are you selling those spark plugs I am looking for a good set....LOL
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Old 05-21-2007, 08:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jares99
Are you selling those spark plugs I am looking for a good set....LOL
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Old 05-21-2007, 09:06 PM   #5
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Ok so a buddy is running *31 timing with a 100 shot ...Is he at risk ?
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Old 05-22-2007, 01:21 PM   #6
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depends on his mods/ if hes detonating... if he detonates on spray he needs to pull timing. i run about 28 degrees on my 200-250 hits. rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 100 hp shot
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Old 05-22-2007, 03:50 PM   #7
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.

Some use 2 degrees per 50, and some use 3 per 100. Start safe and read plugs every pass to watch the changes.

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Old 05-22-2007, 05:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCauseZ06
depends on his mods/ if hes detonating... if he detonates on spray he needs to pull timing. i run about 28 degrees on my 200-250 hits. rule of thumb is 2 degrees for every 100 hp shot
28 on 250 wow
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyzee
28 on 250 wow

haha to be honest the only time my engine has EVER knocked was when i was running out of fuel pump.... ive had my timing upwards of 32-33 degrees on my NA tune with no knock... no power gains... but no knock either


iron block rocks. ive heard that iron blocks love timing for the most part... but meh, all motors are different
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCauseZ06
haha to be honest the only time my engine has EVER knocked was when i was running out of fuel pump.... ive had my timing upwards of 32-33 degrees on my NA tune with no knock... no power gains... but no knock either


iron block rocks. ive heard that iron blocks love timing for the most part... but meh, all motors are different
yhea 32* on na tune fine, but 28* with 250 worth of spray!!
just because it shows no knock doesnt mean much.
get a bore a scope and check out your pistions ect.
thatsalot of timming.
race gas?
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyzee
yhea 32* on na tune fine, but 28* with 250 worth of spray!!
just because it shows no knock doesnt mean much.
get a bore a scope and check out your pistions ect.
thatsalot of timming.
race gas?


28 degrees on a 250 hit is way too much.
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad8266


28 degrees on a 250 hit is way too much.
its an iron block tho
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Old 05-22-2007, 06:42 PM   #13
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The main reason to retard timing is because nitrous increases the burn rate. So to keep the point where everything is burned completely (around 17 degrees ATDC) you need to pull timing out. Generally 2 per 50 on 100 octane or lower is a good starting point and 3 per 100 on something like C16 or equivalent is pretty safe.
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Old 05-22-2007, 07:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srsnow
The main reason to retard timing is because nitrous increases the burn rate. So to keep the point where everything is burned completely (around 17 degrees ATDC) you need to pull timing out.
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Old 05-22-2007, 09:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostCauseZ06
haha to be honest the only time my engine has EVER knocked was when i was running out of fuel pump.... ive had my timing upwards of 32-33 degrees on my NA tune with no knock... no power gains... but no knock either


iron block rocks. ive heard that iron blocks love timing for the most part... but meh, all motors are different
Really the Iron block has no bearing on much timing can or should be run. 28* is waaaaaay to much, imo. Just because you haven't had a melt down like above doesn't mean it's correct. On my 408 at 300 I will be starting at around 16* of timing. On my successfull many runs at 200/250 on my ls6 I was running 22* or less and race gas. The above melt down showed no signs of KR, nor did not make any rattling noise, the silent killer.
Anyway, you have any dyno numbers or track times on your combo, very similar to what I am putting together?
Robert
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert56
Really the Iron block has no bearing on much timing can or should be run. 28* is waaaaaay to much, imo. Just because you haven't had a melt down like above doesn't mean it's correct. On my 408 at 300 I will be starting at around 16* of timing. On my successfull many runs at 200/250 on my ls6 I was running 22* or less and race gas. The above melt down showed no signs of KR, nor did not make any rattling noise, the silent killer.
Anyway, you have any dyno numbers or track times on your combo, very similar to what I am putting together?
Robert

hrmm... thats very interesting, thats like no timing lol ive sprayed the 200 hit in my car numerous times, hell i even sprayed the 200 on my NA tune once on my old pump but ill admit that i did melt 2 plugs (1 and 7) thanks to my rails being starved. the rest of the plugs looked solidly awesome.


i have had my heads off probably 4 times, popped head gaskets, new valves installed, all sorts of fun stuff but my pistons look like they are brand new minus #1 having a small piece of ground strap embedded in it



car put down 480 RWHP and 630 RWHP on the 150 hit through the plate kit. Car was running less than optimum with some problems ( 2 dicked up valves you can see my other thread about it)


im trapping 118 MPH with my horrible driving skillz @ 9500 DA naturally aspirated. i havent ran it again with the spray at the track because i dont want a cage.
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Old 05-23-2007, 10:35 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noyzee
yhea 32* on na tune fine, but 28* with 250 worth of spray!!
just because it shows no knock doesnt mean much.
get a bore a scope and check out your pistions ect.
thatsalot of timming.
race gas?

btw.. to be further flamed.... i have NEVER run race gas in my car


heres a vid of my car on the 200 hit (old nozzle kit) pump gas, and i think i was actually running closer to 30 degrees on this run. it was before we tinkered around and found a sweet spot NA @ 28.5. Dont mind the language or the fact i sound like a hillbilly haha i had the flu and was racing my best friend who thought his 383 LE2 LT1 was the fastest car around

http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...asevsJason.flv



in other words.. i have never had the need to pull any timing for the most part, my NA tune is my spray tune
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:04 AM   #18
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head gaskets poped? try taking out some timming. lol

weird question here, but 118 at 9500 da with 480 rwhp thats bad!!
i went 128 with my z on spray which is about the same rwhp, i was in about 4000 da
my car is stock as a rock.
we also went 121 with my buddies full weight f-body with 420 rwhp and atleast 300 pounds more then a vett.
sounds strange like somthing isntright on, but its your car you know it better then we would.
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:10 AM   #19
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Nitrous increases the speed of the flame front, so you're bringing the advance back to properly time the pressure spike to the retreating piston
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Old 05-23-2007, 11:14 AM   #20
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camtom rules!!! come see me again some day bro


sorry, thread hijack
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