SStolen

iTrader: (22)

Guy's, I'm not a chemists so I can't answer this question for my father. And this really is for my father; I am not using him as a cover up for a dumb question, which this might be (probably is). He has literally asked me ten times why you can't use straight oxygen instead of nitrous oxide. Can someone PLEASE give me an answer supported with facts? He is driving me CRAZY!

99Silverado5.3

iTrader: (7)

My question is why not use liquid nitrogen? Boils off at like -196 Celcius. Just like carry some to the track and just use it for track duty. Don't know how you would inject it though.

sobaka__79

iTrader: (1)

oxygen would cause the metal in the engine to burn without a buffer like nitrogen,


i think

ClemsonStang

think of th appolo missions. oxygen is unstable as hell. chem class says that n2o is much more stable and happy. it also has a much higher ignition point. because its naturally cool, it makes the air much more dense (think dew) which allows the air to hold much more fuel.

TheBlurLS1

iTrader: (8)

You have to compress oxygen to rediculous pressures and/or low temperatures to liquify it, therefore carrying 10lbs of oxygen would require a VERY high pressure container, or a VERY large container. 10lbs of N2O will be a liquid at moderately lower pressures and higher temperatures. An oxygen bottle is a lot more dangerous/more expensive than a nitrous oxide bottle.

If you want more oxygen, you can just spray more N2O.

Disclaimer: These are just my guesses, and I have been wrong before lol.

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

Oxygen burns very very very hot. You would have total meltdown. Nitrogen is the buffer.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Pure oxy is a freaking bomb waiting to explode.
Robert

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

+1, think Hindenburg but on a smaller scale. This reminds me of the LOX thread a while ago.

GTFORMULA

iTrader: (94)

"If" you could get it to work you would have to add massive amounts of fuel to keep the mixture right. Like everyone else said It very unstable.

02 Camaro SS

iTrader: (4)

The Hindenburg was filled with hydrogen which is very flammable. Oxygen itself isn't flammable. It's the oxidant (obvious where they got the name) in combustion.

Alt

iTrader: (6)

I can go outside tomorrow into my van and tell you what a full oxygen tank reads. If I recall its 2500psi. I have an oxy/acetylene rig that I use to braze and cut with and I totally wouldn't use pure oxygen. Ever accidentally spray yourself off with a cutting torch? The oxygen lowers the ignition point of your clothing to room temperature. Enough said there.

zo6vette037

iTrader: (1)

Do you mean liquid oxygen not liquid nitrogen? Nirtrogen disapates oxygen.

bwana

because this is the business I've been in for 30+ yrs.

O2 would work as well if you could get enough on board. N20 is in the standard high pressure cylinder as a liquid, usually rated for 1800-2400psi depending on which particular one. Because of it's vapor pressure it will remain a liquid at +/- a wide range of normal outside temps at a relatively high pressure 800-1200psi. When you hit the switch the N2O flashes(evaporates) at the point it sees a pressure drop (nozzle outlet). It will feed at a fairly constant pressure & rate as the cylinder empties.

O2 will not maintain a liquid state at room temp, so is stored in vacuum cylinders, similar to a thermos. It creates it's own pressure within this cylinder from ambient heat &/or circulating the liquid thru an evaporator that's inside. 500 psi is about the limit of one of these cylinders, but it cannot sustain it for long under use. As it's emptying it's pressure & rate is declining as well. So, it's very difficult to tune the engine to account for that as the rate & pressure depends on a lot of factors that are constantly changing, ie. settle pressure after fill, ambient temp, how much liquid is in there, etc. No commercial cylinder manufacturer builds a small 500psi cylinder that'd work well in a car. That doesn't mean we/they couldn't.

Now whenever the pressure in this cylinder gets above the rated limit, and it will pretty quickly-within the hour-it'll start to vent. The more you jostle & shake the cylinder the faster it'll build pressure & vent. Not a good deal around a car, but you could pipe it away to the safest spot on the car.

If you could produce a pump to feed a continuous supply @ pressure you'd still be faced with refilling the cylinder immediately before each run because it vents out so quickly. Not so quickly you couldn't drag race, but you wouldn't last long on the street.

You'd have the same tuning problems with a high pressure gas (not liquid) cylinder- like the one on an oxy-acet torch rig- because of the rapid pressure/rate drop as you use it. A cylinder big enough that would mitigate the flow drop would be too big to manage, plus you'd only get to use only 25% or so of it before the flow drop would again become an issue. Pumps that fill high pressure O2 cyls "compress" (really just push) the liquid thru a huge evaporator because pumps that compress enough gas fast are enormous & inefficient-(think about your shop air compressor). So a "gas" pump won't work.

So the short answer is you can't get enough of it on board to do anything much more than drag race. And to do that you'd have to build a cylinder & pump & bring enough Liq O2 with you to last the day(s).

It's not all that dangerous to handle or introduce into an engine once you burn up enough of them to figure out what's the right amount of O2 v.s Fuel.

Now this is the part I don't know, but I suspect that N2O will introduce pretty close to all of the O2 part of itself that the engine would require. Of course it'd require more of it to get as much equivalent O2, but nowhere close to more than any 20lb bottle & nozzle would provide? So you'd spend a lot of dough to have only an equivalent setup in terms of power addition. And certainly somewhat less safe & much more of a hassle.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

The simple answer to this question is that pure O2 would produce VERY hot spots in the cylinder. You see oxygen content in nitrous oxide is set at the molecular level and it adds somewhere around 16% over air. Pure oxygen would add 80%!!! N2O works perfectly because it doesn't break down into O2 and N2 until 550+ degrees, so it comes with natures perfect combustion buffer (N2), with a self controlled release mechanism (temperature).

Not to mention in a pure O2 enviorment, pretty much ANYTHING becomes a fuel. One leak and Houston we have a burning car cabin. And since O2 is chemically smaller, it has a MUCH GREATER chance of developing leaks.

CETA_TransAm

iTrader: (1)

good info

sleeperstyle

iTrader: (4)

the goddam hindenburg burned because of the PAINT THEY USED on it. haha. honestly look it up. i think it had something to do with rocket-fuel in the paint or something.

jetblast

everyone got it wrong, oxygen will ignite oncontrollably if it comes into contact with grease,oils. i work with it and only bronze wrenches are used and all equiptment has to be grease/oil free. ever hear of the lady flying on an ariliner, that burned her face when she went to use her oxygen mask?, her make ignited the o2.

Beaflag VonRathburg

iTrader: (176)

Agreed, but you must have both the fuel and the flame. The pure oxygen would act as the fuel and the gas / spark would act as the flame.

This is a good link that helps explain why this is an awful idea and kind of goes along with what I'm saying.

http://www.angelo.edu/faculty/kboudr...rning_iron.htm

jmill96Z

iTrader: (3)