How Much Timing Retard When Using Race Gas?
09-27-2008, 10:02 PM
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How Much Timing Retard When Using Race Gas? So I know that the rule of thumb is for about every 50 shot run 2° of timing retard. But what about if you are running 100 octane race fuel? How much timing would your retard then? Let's say a 300 shot for example, you would normally run about 12° of retard. BUT if you were using race gas ALSO in conjunction with the timing retard, then how much timing should you pull then?
Also what's the point of even running race gas when you can pull timing for free?
Also what's the point of even running race gas when you can pull timing for free?
Last edited by InjectedSS; 09-28-2008 at 05:58 AM.
09-28-2008, 12:11 AM
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So I know that the rule of thumb is for about every 50 shot run 2° of timing retard. But what about if you are running 100 octane race fuel? How much timing would your retard then? Let's say a 300 shot for example, you would normally run about 6° of retard. BUT if you were using race gas ALSO in conjunction with the timing retard, then how much timing should you pull then?
Also what's the point of even running race gas when you can pull timing for free?
Also what's the point of even running race gas when you can pull timing for free?
Thats not even close to what you'd pull out, but I see what you're asking. A safe bet is to start by pulling 2 every 50hp worth. Then creeping back up with some additional timing if it looks like it needs it.
Race gas is needed when engine compression(heat) is higher than pump gas would like. It can handle more heat before it ignites. It can also keep temps cooler during the burn which is why you might think additional timing could be added. The additional amount SHOULD BE very minimal if any. Some have additional ingredients to work specifically on nitrous. Some can make a lot more power than pump gas, etc. My combo for example...I run race gas on motor for strictly a performance gain. It runs fine on pump gas but it made more power with VP113 so I pay for the performance aspect. On nitrous I run it for safety. I'm not worried about every last HP with the hose, I just need it to be safe and reliable... I run high octane, COLD plugs, and conservative timing. All in an effort to not burn up parts. I know that I don't know a lot...haha
09-28-2008, 03:17 PM
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first off you need to know where your starting for timming. befor you figure how much to pull, what parts are in the car, on a stock motor you want to be very carefull, if its built you can go a little more. some say rule of thumb, 2* for first 100, then 2* every 50 after that, others say 2* per 50, i added 2* on my cousins car with 100 so to each is its own
10-07-2009, 01:39 PM
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I think I've pretty much read what everyone says about how much timing to pull but how about this? I ran into a tuner at the track the the other day and he told me that I didn't need to pull any timing because my knock sensor would safely do it for me as long as I ran 50/50 race gas/93 100 shot and pretty much all race gas up to 150. He said this is how he runs his vette and no problems. I know knock sensors will normally pull timing if needed but is there anything to this? ??????? I'm asking because I havn't heard this way before. ?
This guy tunes alot of vehiicles and they do very well. What gives?
This guy tunes alot of vehiicles and they do very well. What gives?
10-07-2009, 02:00 PM
#6
I think I've pretty much read what everyone says about how much timing to pull but how about this? I ran into a tuner at the track the the other day and he told me that I didn't need to pull any timing because my knock sensor would safely do it for me as long as I ran 50/50 race gas/93 100 shot and pretty much all race gas up to 150. He said this is how he runs his vette and no problems. I know knock sensors will normally pull timing if needed but is there anything to this? ??????? I'm asking because I havn't heard this way before. ?
This guy tunes alot of vehiicles and they do very well. What gives?
This guy tunes alot of vehiicles and they do very well. What gives?
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10-07-2009, 09:23 PM
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Do what he said, run from that guy! Knock sensors have to see knock before they retard. You want to prevent knock from happening at all.
In a sense, if I came at you with a hammer, would you let me hit you in the head a couple of times then try and stop me or would you stop my *** before I even get near you with the hammer.
I don't think GM pcm's pull enough timing on their own to help with a nitrous situation. It was more designed for bad gas and the such.
In a sense, if I came at you with a hammer, would you let me hit you in the head a couple of times then try and stop me or would you stop my *** before I even get near you with the hammer.
I don't think GM pcm's pull enough timing on their own to help with a nitrous situation. It was more designed for bad gas and the such.
10-08-2009, 05:23 AM
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Do what he said, run from that guy! Knock sensors have to see knock before they retard. You want to prevent knock from happening at all.
In a sense, if I came at you with a hammer, would you let me hit you in the head a couple of times then try and stop me or would you stop my *** before I even get near you with the hammer.
I don't think GM pcm's pull enough timing on their own to help with a nitrous situation. It was more designed for bad gas and the such.
In a sense, if I came at you with a hammer, would you let me hit you in the head a couple of times then try and stop me or would you stop my *** before I even get near you with the hammer.
I don't think GM pcm's pull enough timing on their own to help with a nitrous situation. It was more designed for bad gas and the such.
10-08-2009, 11:58 AM
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10-08-2009, 12:25 PM
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Do what he said, run from that guy! Knock sensors have to see knock before they retard. You want to prevent knock from happening at all.
In a sense, if I came at you with a hammer, would you let me hit you in the head a couple of times then try and stop me or would you stop my *** before I even get near you with the hammer.
I don't think GM pcm's pull enough timing on their own to help with a nitrous situation. It was more designed for bad gas and the such.
In a sense, if I came at you with a hammer, would you let me hit you in the head a couple of times then try and stop me or would you stop my *** before I even get near you with the hammer.
I don't think GM pcm's pull enough timing on their own to help with a nitrous situation. It was more designed for bad gas and the such.
10-08-2009, 01:16 PM
#12
So I know that the rule of thumb is for about every 50 shot run 2° of timing retard. But what about if you are running 100 octane race fuel? How much timing would your retard then? Let's say a 300 shot for example, you would normally run about 12° of retard. BUT if you were using race gas ALSO in conjunction with the timing retard, then how much timing should you pull then?
Also what's the point of even running race gas when you can pull timing for free?
Also what's the point of even running race gas when you can pull timing for free?
If you run your 300 shot at 26*(assuming the 28 starting point) you will blow your **** up. I would run closer to 12 total timming to start on most ls1's especually with 2 kits. after you get over 150 shot the 2* per rule goes out the window. also cam and chamber design play a big role in timming.
