Anyone want to help me out?
03-21-2009, 09:37 AM
#1
Anyone want to help me out? Car won't stay running.
Mods:
GT70 front mount
adjustable boost referenced regulator base pressure at 58psi
lucas 42.5lb injectors
comp xer 230/230 cam
ls6 intake
241 heads with prc dual springs
I have changed my IFR and offset tables for the boost referenced regulator and the 42lb injectors, not it won't stay running. No matter what is changed in the VE table due to the rich idle, it still stays super rich. I'm new to this, but my injectors were at 4.x ms at the rich idle, I'm pretty sure its supposed to be lower. Just not sure how to compensate for that to get my car to idle.
I posted the tune and three idle logs
Mods:
GT70 front mount
adjustable boost referenced regulator base pressure at 58psi
lucas 42.5lb injectors
comp xer 230/230 cam
ls6 intake
241 heads with prc dual springs
I have changed my IFR and offset tables for the boost referenced regulator and the 42lb injectors, not it won't stay running. No matter what is changed in the VE table due to the rich idle, it still stays super rich. I'm new to this, but my injectors were at 4.x ms at the rich idle, I'm pretty sure its supposed to be lower. Just not sure how to compensate for that to get my car to idle.
I posted the tune and three idle logs
03-21-2009, 06:17 PM
#4
This wont fix your problem but it looks like you still have the stock 1 bar MAP sensor in your table, you need to delete it and insert the GM 2 bar pressure sensor. You definatly have a 2 bar VE table.
BTW that IPW of 4.x at idle seems very high, I would try restoring the voltage offset table to what it was before, keep the new IFR table and try it like that. Just a suggestion.
BTW that IPW of 4.x at idle seems very high, I would try restoring the voltage offset table to what it was before, keep the new IFR table and try it like that. Just a suggestion.
03-21-2009, 08:48 PM
#5
This wont fix your problem but it looks like you still have the stock 1 bar MAP sensor in your table, you need to delete it and insert the GM 2 bar pressure sensor. You definatly have a 2 bar VE table.
BTW that IPW of 4.x at idle seems very high, I would try restoring the voltage offset table to what it was before, keep the new IFR table and try it like that. Just a suggestion.
BTW that IPW of 4.x at idle seems very high, I would try restoring the voltage offset table to what it was before, keep the new IFR table and try it like that. Just a suggestion.
The offset didn't seem to change it either way. That is the table that ec tune said to use for the 42lb lucas injectors. I'm thinking it has something to do with the short pulse adder and the default and minimum pulses. Just don't know which way to go with them.
03-21-2009, 11:32 PM
#6
The 98s don't have a 2 bar table, thats why you have to use the custom operating software. I have a 2 bar map in there.
The offset didn't seem to change it either way. That is the table that ec tune said to use for the 42lb lucas injectors. I'm thinking it has something to do with the short pulse adder and the default and minimum pulses. Just don't know which way to go with them.
The offset didn't seem to change it either way. That is the table that ec tune said to use for the 42lb lucas injectors. I'm thinking it has something to do with the short pulse adder and the default and minimum pulses. Just don't know which way to go with them.
Look at the main table in my config, mine is a 3 bar but you get the idea.
03-21-2009, 11:41 PM
#7
Yes I'm with you & think the issue most likely is in the IPW but I'm not very experienced at changing it so I cant really give you any good advice on that subject. (blind leading the blind lol!)
In my case its hard to get the IPW low enough because of my low impedance injectors. I hear a lot of people with this problem turn down the fuel pressure, usually to 43 PSI since most injectors are rated at 3 bar anyway (about 43.5 PSI).
In my case its hard to get the IPW low enough because of my low impedance injectors. I hear a lot of people with this problem turn down the fuel pressure, usually to 43 PSI since most injectors are rated at 3 bar anyway (about 43.5 PSI).
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03-22-2009, 06:59 AM
#8
Yeah I know you have a 2 bar OS because your VE table goes to 210KPA, the point I was making is that in the scanner it looks like your 1 bar MAP PID is what you are logging, you need to delete that MAP PID and insert the new "GM 2 bar pressure sensor" (your new 2 bar MAP sensor).
Look at the main table in my config, mine is a 3 bar but you get the idea.
Look at the main table in my config, mine is a 3 bar but you get the idea.
EDIT: Yours is weird, when you are at idle its already logging boost, a positive pressure. It should be logging vacuum or a negative psi value or just nothing at all until you are in boost I'd think.
I really want to get this figured out. Mine are high impedance injectors, so I don't know what the deal is there.
Last edited by 98Camarod; 03-22-2009 at 07:05 AM.
03-22-2009, 07:07 AM
#9
Try this one. The VE should get you a little closer.
With you using the 1 bar map sensor in the scanner, and a 2 bar table, you're making adjustments to the wrong area of the table. They're not corresponding.
With 42s, you should be able to use the stock offsets.
Current tune 21mar09 Modified Offset and injector pulse.EH1.hpt
Try this config.
config.zip
With you using the 1 bar map sensor in the scanner, and a 2 bar table, you're making adjustments to the wrong area of the table. They're not corresponding.
With 42s, you should be able to use the stock offsets.
Current tune 21mar09 Modified Offset and injector pulse.EH1.hpt
Try this config.
config.zip
03-22-2009, 08:09 AM
#10
This is a quote from bill@hptuners:
Your not exactly following, the standard map sensor pid in conjunction with our 2 bar custom os & a 2 bar map sensor will read boost in 98's. 99+ are a little different.
I'll give that tune a shot Ed.
EDIT: Config won't load up
Your not exactly following, the standard map sensor pid in conjunction with our 2 bar custom os & a 2 bar map sensor will read boost in 98's. 99+ are a little different.
I'll give that tune a shot Ed.
EDIT: Config won't load up
03-22-2009, 08:18 AM
#11
Frost said that the reason that the changes I'm making aren't right is because of the WB.
quote from frost:
I see 1.8mS in the places where your VE is insanely low... look at the logs; you see the AFR get insanely lean in the same spots! I told you before that this isn't a minimum pulse problem. What is with the giant falloff that the VE is taking from 400 RPMs to 3600 RPMs at 50kPa and lower? The car is clearly responding to the VE table. Really, your VE looks about the same as it did when you posted it two weeks ago. As before, it just looks like it needs work. Be wary, there is seemingly a lot of wideband latency in your logs. Look at the injector times and then see how many frames later you are seeing the corresponding AFR change. For instance in your last log at frame 135 you see the injector time go low and it's not until 3 frames later that you see the AFR swing up on the wideband. This will make the copy-paste-special for % error nearly useless.
So my question is, how should this be taken care of, a new wideband or can something be done with this one?
quote from frost:
I see 1.8mS in the places where your VE is insanely low... look at the logs; you see the AFR get insanely lean in the same spots! I told you before that this isn't a minimum pulse problem. What is with the giant falloff that the VE is taking from 400 RPMs to 3600 RPMs at 50kPa and lower? The car is clearly responding to the VE table. Really, your VE looks about the same as it did when you posted it two weeks ago. As before, it just looks like it needs work. Be wary, there is seemingly a lot of wideband latency in your logs. Look at the injector times and then see how many frames later you are seeing the corresponding AFR change. For instance in your last log at frame 135 you see the injector time go low and it's not until 3 frames later that you see the AFR swing up on the wideband. This will make the copy-paste-special for % error nearly useless.
So my question is, how should this be taken care of, a new wideband or can something be done with this one?
03-22-2009, 08:48 AM
#12
Try putting it in CL and using the narrow bands for your part throttle tuning. I prefer using the NB for part throttle correcting if you plan to run CL. The widebands aren't always the most accurate, and your PCM could care less what the wideband sees anyways.
Your whole VE table just looked wrong. It had the fuel removed in the wrong place.
Your whole VE table just looked wrong. It had the fuel removed in the wrong place.
03-22-2009, 09:05 AM
#14
Try putting it in CL and using the narrow bands for your part throttle tuning. I prefer using the NB for part throttle correcting if you plan to run CL. The widebands aren't always the most accurate, and your PCM could care less what the wideband sees anyways.
Your whole VE table just looked wrong. It had the fuel removed in the wrong place.
Your whole VE table just looked wrong. It had the fuel removed in the wrong place.
03-22-2009, 10:25 AM
#15
Yes, log STFTs and MAP to display it in the histogram. Make sure you're using Kpa for the MAP value. Make sure your histogram looks like your VE table. Make sure you're in the correct cells at idle, cruise, heavy throttle etc.
Log your 02s just to see what they're doing. I'd continue to log the WB too, just to see how it corresponds to the fuel trims and narrow bands.
Leave the long terms off.
Log your 02s just to see what they're doing. I'd continue to log the WB too, just to see how it corresponds to the fuel trims and narrow bands.
Leave the long terms off.
03-22-2009, 10:50 AM
#16
Yes, log STFTs and MAP to display it in the histogram. Make sure you're using Kpa for the MAP value. Make sure your histogram looks like your VE table. Make sure you're in the correct cells at idle, cruise, heavy throttle etc.
Log your 02s just to see what they're doing. I'd continue to log the WB too, just to see how it corresponds to the fuel trims and narrow bands.
Leave the long terms off.
Log your 02s just to see what they're doing. I'd continue to log the WB too, just to see how it corresponds to the fuel trims and narrow bands.
Leave the long terms off.
Ed Hutchins for the motha ****** win!
03-22-2009, 12:08 PM
#19
Yea I asked bill about that that, he told me that the 98's dont have the 2 bar map PID and I'm just supposed to log the same PID, because in the chart the correct map value is logged.
EDIT: Yours is weird, when you are at idle its already logging boost, a positive pressure. It should be logging vacuum or a negative psi value or just nothing at all until you are in boost I'd think.
I really want to get this figured out. Mine are high impedance injectors, so I don't know what the deal is there.
EDIT: Yours is weird, when you are at idle its already logging boost, a positive pressure. It should be logging vacuum or a negative psi value or just nothing at all until you are in boost I'd think.
I really want to get this figured out. Mine are high impedance injectors, so I don't know what the deal is there.
About my .cfg, I made a custom boost PID that subtracts -14.5 and ignores values 14.5 and below (vaccum). This way you dont have to do math to figure out how much boost you made on the log. If you look at all the histograms with a red asterix you will see some custom histograms I made that are very helpful to me. I think that boost PID will work for you but you have to log MAP in PSI if it will let you with the stock MAP PID.
Frost said that the reason that the changes I'm making aren't right is because of the WB.
quote from frost:
I see 1.8mS in the places where your VE is insanely low... look at the logs; you see the AFR get insanely lean in the same spots! I told you before that this isn't a minimum pulse problem. What is with the giant falloff that the VE is taking from 400 RPMs to 3600 RPMs at 50kPa and lower? The car is clearly responding to the VE table. Really, your VE looks about the same as it did when you posted it two weeks ago. As before, it just looks like it needs work. Be wary, there is seemingly a lot of wideband latency in your logs. Look at the injector times and then see how many frames later you are seeing the corresponding AFR change. For instance in your last log at frame 135 you see the injector time go low and it's not until 3 frames later that you see the AFR swing up on the wideband. This will make the copy-paste-special for % error nearly useless.
So my question is, how should this be taken care of, a new wideband or can something be done with this one?
quote from frost:
I see 1.8mS in the places where your VE is insanely low... look at the logs; you see the AFR get insanely lean in the same spots! I told you before that this isn't a minimum pulse problem. What is with the giant falloff that the VE is taking from 400 RPMs to 3600 RPMs at 50kPa and lower? The car is clearly responding to the VE table. Really, your VE looks about the same as it did when you posted it two weeks ago. As before, it just looks like it needs work. Be wary, there is seemingly a lot of wideband latency in your logs. Look at the injector times and then see how many frames later you are seeing the corresponding AFR change. For instance in your last log at frame 135 you see the injector time go low and it's not until 3 frames later that you see the AFR swing up on the wideband. This will make the copy-paste-special for % error nearly useless.
So my question is, how should this be taken care of, a new wideband or can something be done with this one?
Also I would reccomend deleting the PID's you dont use anymore from your main table in the scanner like, narrow band O2's, MAF, & fuel trims. This will give your scanner a higher resoloution.
03-22-2009, 01:20 PM
#20
My VE was jacked. I loaded it up and it idles nicely around stoich, part throttle is around stoich, and cruising is also hovering around stoich.
WOT, thing is crazy fast, until that coupler I have off of my throttle body pops off. I have to get a good t bolt clamp for that.
WOT, thing is crazy fast, until that coupler I have off of my throttle body pops off. I have to get a good t bolt clamp for that.