Car Starts, then dies within 20 seconds
10-20-2009, 08:32 AM
#1
Staging Lane
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Car Starts, then dies within 20 seconds Car starts up runs great for about 10 seconds, then it starts going lean and just stalls out within 20 seconds or less. I've been working on this problem for about 2 weeks now.
Fuel pressure is good
Spark plugs are good
All sensors are good
All cylinders are firing
All Grounds are good
Car is in speed density, no maf, no O2's
So any ideas from anyone would be helpful.
Thanks guys,
Jeff
Fuel pressure is good
Spark plugs are good
All sensors are good
All cylinders are firing
All Grounds are good
Car is in speed density, no maf, no O2's
So any ideas from anyone would be helpful.
Thanks guys,
Jeff
10-20-2009, 03:42 PM
#3
Staging Lane
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The tune is spot on. It has nothing to do with the tune. When it first happened I loaded a tune from a few days before, same thing. I tried four different tunes, all the same.
I took the car out logged a wot and took the car home, went back out an hour later to start the car, and It started doing this.
I took the car out logged a wot and took the car home, went back out an hour later to start the car, and It started doing this.
10-20-2009, 03:43 PM
#4
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The tune is spot on. It has nothing to do with the tune. When it first happened I loaded a tune from a few days before, same thing. I tried four different tunes, all the same.
I took the car out logged a wot and took the car home, went back out an hour later to start the car, and It started doing this.
I took the car out logged a wot and took the car home, went back out an hour later to start the car, and It started doing this.
10-20-2009, 04:10 PM
#5
If the tune was "spot on" why would you load other tunes? If it's not the tune, it's one of the things you listed in your first post; that's all that is involved with the system. There are no mystery elements.
Post your tune and a log of the occurrence.
Post your tune and a log of the occurrence.
10-23-2009, 04:12 PM
#7
Yeah, that VE is jacked up pretty bad... It is ridiculously low through out. My guess is, the car starts in OL and once afterstart enrichment is gone, so is the fuel that you need to idle. That log is not a log of the problem though; it runs in that log.
I see you have some other-than-stock injectors, but the only table you changed was flow rate? That's not THE problem, but it is and will be a problem. The timing table is a mess too. You have idle PID controls adjusted that need to go back to stock too. Once airflow and fueling are good, THEN if you have issues you adjust here, but that is rare if the other parts are correct. There are MANY other items, but no need to sit here and make a list. I would start over again with a stock tune, it will be less work then getting that one sorted out.
I see you have some other-than-stock injectors, but the only table you changed was flow rate? That's not THE problem, but it is and will be a problem. The timing table is a mess too. You have idle PID controls adjusted that need to go back to stock too. Once airflow and fueling are good, THEN if you have issues you adjust here, but that is rare if the other parts are correct. There are MANY other items, but no need to sit here and make a list. I would start over again with a stock tune, it will be less work then getting that one sorted out.
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10-24-2009, 04:07 PM
#8
Yeah, that VE is jacked up pretty bad... It is ridiculously low through out. My guess is, the car starts in OL and once afterstart enrichment is gone, so is the fuel that you need to idle. That log is not a log of the problem though; it runs in that log.
I see you have some other-than-stock injectors, but the only table you changed was flow rate? That's not THE problem, but it is and will be a problem. The timing table is a mess too. You have idle PID controls adjusted that need to go back to stock too. Once airflow and fueling are good, THEN if you have issues you adjust here, but that is rare if the other parts are correct. There are MANY other items, but no need to sit here and make a list. I would start over again with a stock tune, it will be less work then getting that one sorted out.
I see you have some other-than-stock injectors, but the only table you changed was flow rate? That's not THE problem, but it is and will be a problem. The timing table is a mess too. You have idle PID controls adjusted that need to go back to stock too. Once airflow and fueling are good, THEN if you have issues you adjust here, but that is rare if the other parts are correct. There are MANY other items, but no need to sit here and make a list. I would start over again with a stock tune, it will be less work then getting that one sorted out.
10-24-2009, 05:20 PM
#9
Have you ever tuned a car before? The injector flow rates are high because he has 42lb injectors on a 402. The car is completely OLSD, which is open loop speed density, which is why the VE is so low. The VE on a stock car is only for checking the MAF operation and for acceleration enrichments. If you dont even know what a PID controller does, don't get going down that road. So keep the ideas coming.
Sure, in the land where we make everything up, I haven't tuned a car before and that's also a good tune.
I would encourage anyone reading this to have a look for themselves.
I'm not gonna touch most of that gibberish, but for the injectors... I understand that he has aftermarket injectors. I DON'T UNDERSTAND why their offset vs. voltage vs. MAP is STOCK, the short-pulse adder is STOCK, the minimum pulse and default tables are STOCK for his NON STOCK INJECTORS.
10-25-2009, 07:18 PM
#11
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I'm not gonna touch most of that gibberish, but for the injectors... I understand that he has aftermarket injectors. I DON'T UNDERSTAND why their offset vs. voltage vs. MAP is STOCK, the short-pulse adder is STOCK, the minimum pulse and default tables are STOCK for his NON STOCK INJECTORS.
10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
#12
This tune is a stock tune with the necessary changes for open loop speed density. The outcome is the same with the start up fine and then the car leaning out after a few seconds and inevitably dying. Please explain to me how this is possible with the VE table through the roof.....
Im not knocking you tuning know how and i understand what you are saying about the offsets, but the error is negligle on car like this, the VE table should take care of that. Im a mechanical engineer and design this stuff from the ground up, so I know there are no faults in the tune.
Attached is a copy of the tune and the log to go with it.....also attached are a few pics for todays lesson of Feedback 101. School is in session.........
Im not knocking you tuning know how and i understand what you are saying about the offsets, but the error is negligle on car like this, the VE table should take care of that. Im a mechanical engineer and design this stuff from the ground up, so I know there are no faults in the tune.
Attached is a copy of the tune and the log to go with it.....also attached are a few pics for todays lesson of Feedback 101. School is in session.........
10-26-2009, 10:36 AM
#13
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OP, with OLSD it is referencing your VE Table for all fueling/airmass.
It does appear to be unusually low airmass values which would translate into very little fuel (lean) in the lower Rpm's.
I won't comment about your injector tuning..my purpose on this forum is to stay out of arguments. Frost is one of the best tuners in the U.S. You asked the question. Your VE Table needs to be readdressed.
Respectfully..
..WeathermanShawn..
It does appear to be unusually low airmass values which would translate into very little fuel (lean) in the lower Rpm's.
I won't comment about your injector tuning..my purpose on this forum is to stay out of arguments. Frost is one of the best tuners in the U.S. You asked the question. Your VE Table needs to be readdressed.
Respectfully..
..WeathermanShawn..
