will EGR?TCS?cruise?=poor performance
01-08-2004, 06:22 PM
#1
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jeffersonville,IN
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
will EGR?TCS?cruise?=poor performance I need to know if taking the egr,tcs,cruise off without deprogramming them with edit or other means will cause problems. I wish to take these off for the weight and to unclutter the engine
01-11-2004, 09:40 PM
#3
Teching In
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern IN, USA
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EGR is a emision requirement, it is a violation of Federal law to tamper with - now that I said that, newer LS1 engines do NOt have an EGR , but this is facilitated by cam and PCM programming. If the engine HAD EGR, it's prob a good idea to leave it on. It does NOT hurt performance, weighs maybe a pound or so, and probablly helps the durability of the engine by SLIGHTLY lowering combustion temps.
TCS has many parts other than the switch and servo, like added brake lines, additional sensors, and other things, and maybe weighs about 10 pounds - so why bother?
Cruise is "free" - it's a PCM feature - not like in the old days where there were servos and vacuum pots.... you'd save an ounce by taking off the stalk switch!
For an uncluttered engine, may I suggest a 1965 Chevelle?
TCS has many parts other than the switch and servo, like added brake lines, additional sensors, and other things, and maybe weighs about 10 pounds - so why bother?
Cruise is "free" - it's a PCM feature - not like in the old days where there were servos and vacuum pots.... you'd save an ounce by taking off the stalk switch!
For an uncluttered engine, may I suggest a 1965 Chevelle?
01-11-2004, 09:52 PM
#4
i would have to disagree with you on the egr valve. not tryin to get anything going here but when i took my egr vavle out my pinging went away. my reasoning is that the egr throws in hot gasses and an unburnable fuel mixture so the actual mixture that goes in the combustion chamber is hotter. however without the egr, once ignited the temps may be slightly hotter due to a better combustion. but for pinging to go away it would cause the total combustion temps to be lower right? i may be wrong but i figured with pinging going away after this, same air fuel ratio and all that the egr had to be the culprit. yes its illegal but i know for NC inspection that if the egr is deleted out of the computer, an ls6 intake is installed and all hangers are removed taht it will pass emission testing. if you are asked about it just say its a 2001-2002 motor/computer but like i said thats here in NC. mine passes.
also, i weighed the whole egr unit. it weighs in right at 7 lbs. my car also ran a lot more consistent wtih the egr out. IMO its a great idea to take it out. worse comes to worse bolt it back on if u have to get inspections, if u plan on getting an ls6 intake get one with the egr mod. once a year put it back on get it inspected and take it back out. u can have the code deleted from the computer so it still wont read it but it will pass inspection this way. emission stuff isnt there to help the car, it hurts performance and consistancy IMO take it out!
also, i weighed the whole egr unit. it weighs in right at 7 lbs. my car also ran a lot more consistent wtih the egr out. IMO its a great idea to take it out. worse comes to worse bolt it back on if u have to get inspections, if u plan on getting an ls6 intake get one with the egr mod. once a year put it back on get it inspected and take it back out. u can have the code deleted from the computer so it still wont read it but it will pass inspection this way. emission stuff isnt there to help the car, it hurts performance and consistancy IMO take it out!
01-12-2004, 10:15 AM
#5
Teching In
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern IN, USA
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK, first a quick Google...
http://www.visionengineer.com/mech/e...culation.shtml
EGR gasses are COOLER (yea they may be as hot as the EXHAUST, but that's a helluva lot cooler then the COMBUSTION temps!). "Piniging" (preignition) CAN be caused by a hot combustion chamber, but that is an infrequent cause - deposits, timing, and load play a much greater factor in it's apperance.
I would presume that it's a coincidence, because at any point in the load curve basically above idle and cruise (read as "accelleration"), the EGR is supposed to close (stop letting in exhaust gas) - so it shouldn't affect preignition AT ALL - unless it is not functioning properly!
Technically if you can get it to pass the smog check and convince their OBDII reader that your car is legit (good luck!) you are OK, but it's still illegal in the eyes of the Federal Smog *****...
Hell even if it emitted only water and oxygen, they law says you can't tamper - dumb, but true.
While I'm basically NOT an environmentalist, I always cringe at such unsubstantiated and unscientifically validated statements like:
"emission stuff isnt there to help the car, it hurts performance and consistancy..."
Yea, maybe in 1977 or 1984, that MAY have been true, but NOT today, on a unmodified and street-legal engine all that OBDII stuff actually HELPS performance, driveability, efficiency, and emissions.
Trust me, it wouldn't be there if it did - ever heard of CAFE?
Now on a modified car, maybe, but then you are on your own with respect to rethinking 20 years of engine, petrochemical, thermodynamic (and about a dozen other diciplines) engineering to get the most power out of your engine. Many have tried, many more have failed, some are just lucky, (some just good at pretending) and a few, well, they aren't telling!
Good luck and don't comsider this a flame, but a bit of trivia - nex't time you get asked on TV about "What's an EGR Valve do?" you can thank me!
MRK
http://www.visionengineer.com/mech/e...culation.shtml
EGR gasses are COOLER (yea they may be as hot as the EXHAUST, but that's a helluva lot cooler then the COMBUSTION temps!). "Piniging" (preignition) CAN be caused by a hot combustion chamber, but that is an infrequent cause - deposits, timing, and load play a much greater factor in it's apperance.
I would presume that it's a coincidence, because at any point in the load curve basically above idle and cruise (read as "accelleration"), the EGR is supposed to close (stop letting in exhaust gas) - so it shouldn't affect preignition AT ALL - unless it is not functioning properly!
Technically if you can get it to pass the smog check and convince their OBDII reader that your car is legit (good luck!) you are OK, but it's still illegal in the eyes of the Federal Smog *****...
Hell even if it emitted only water and oxygen, they law says you can't tamper - dumb, but true.
While I'm basically NOT an environmentalist, I always cringe at such unsubstantiated and unscientifically validated statements like:
"emission stuff isnt there to help the car, it hurts performance and consistancy..."
Yea, maybe in 1977 or 1984, that MAY have been true, but NOT today, on a unmodified and street-legal engine all that OBDII stuff actually HELPS performance, driveability, efficiency, and emissions.
Trust me, it wouldn't be there if it did - ever heard of CAFE?
Now on a modified car, maybe, but then you are on your own with respect to rethinking 20 years of engine, petrochemical, thermodynamic (and about a dozen other diciplines) engineering to get the most power out of your engine. Many have tried, many more have failed, some are just lucky, (some just good at pretending) and a few, well, they aren't telling!
Good luck and don't comsider this a flame, but a bit of trivia - nex't time you get asked on TV about "What's an EGR Valve do?" you can thank me!
MRK
Last edited by emarkay; 01-12-2004 at 10:23 AM. Reason: spelling
01-12-2004, 01:24 PM
#6
yeah your right about that. i wasnt really talkin about the combution temps i was talkin about just the mixture temp. thought it would have some kinda effect on it but your right egr is shut off pretty much at WOT. guess it was coincidence but like i said i might be wrong. however i do feel the car runs smoother and better. but thanks for the info, its some good stuff...well anything u say is good stuff lol
