BigTex

iTrader: (16)

Can someone explain the difference between cell 15 and 22? What is the trigger to move from 15 to 22 (or vice versa, if thats the case)? Are there any benefits or disadvantages being in WOT in 15 or 22?

I recently looked at my EFI data and noticed that all my recorded runs are in cell 15. TPS is 99.6%, MAP is 14.5+ pounds, MAF peaks a little over 47, mid 20s timing, and slightly positive Ltrims.

Any clues? Thanks in advance.

BigTex

iTrader: (16)

Bueller....

iateyourcat

Not sure but, in the few runs that I made last weekend I have a total of 8 recorded events in cell 13 (and roughly 200 in cell 22). Of those 8 my MAP is at 97-98, my O2s read from .5 to .9 and the timing is always below 21 degrees. This is an O1 PCM. What year is your car?

Team ZR-1

Both are PE cells and which is used depends on what the RPM, MAP and engine load is.

BigTex

iTrader: (16)

When I floor it, it goes to cell 15 and never changes. So rpms from 2800-6200, MAP is a near steady 14.5+ (~100kPa), engine load reaches 100 in the upper 3000s and stays there.

I'm just curious as I see cell 15 under mid range throttle on the freeway aslo. I would expect to see cell 22 sometime, but haven't yet.

goodhands

My PCM considers cell 22 to be the only true WOT PE cell. I have verified this by using different logging methods and how the PCM reacts to different changes made via LS1 edit. However cell 15 must definitly be a transition PE cell to full PE mode (maybe this makes sense maybe not). My PE mode is determined by RPM and TPS. Example the stock setting on my 03 C-5 is at 2800 rpm/up and 19% tps the PCM is told to go to PE mode. Since I know TeamZR-1 knows his shiot I am guessing that depending on the load and MAP, the PCM then chooses which PE cell to go to such as 15 or 22. Am I close here TeamZR-1? I am just trying to better understand this myself but this is what I see from the results of my countless hours of logging.

BigTex

iTrader: (16)

This is what I would have assumed too. Cell 15 for hard driving non WOT stuff that would transition to cell 22 once certain parameters are met. But I'm pretty sure I should be tripping over into 22 if thats the case.

This is for my truck, which is a 2003 drive-by-wire LQ9 6 liter. Most of the PCM tables are stock, with a few normal changes. MAF, IFR, PE, VE are all stock.

goodhands

BIG TEX, I recently changed the stock PE mode setting under the Wide Open Throttle HOT table from 19% TPS to 17% from 2800 rpm and up. I have not logged yet but you may want to try reducing yours if you are trying to get your truck to get to cell 22 sooner? Just a thought

Team ZR-1

I am not clear on your values, MAP in KPA would have to be over 90 KPA for cell 22 where as cell 15 is MAP less then 90.

If 3,000 means RPMs, to be in WOT TPS has to be greater then 64% ( if you left the values stock in cold WOT table.

In any case both cells have Fuel Learn = OFF so O2s are ignored.

Team ZR-1

I see no reason to force a cell 22 for cell 15 is the same mode,
just means engine has less MAP, more vaccum then cell 22.

66ImpalaLT1

That is not true with my '99 C5. I have logs showing cell 22 with as little as 45 kpa and 12% throttle.

BigTex

iTrader: (16)

Team ZR1 - I am showing MAP of 14.5psi, or 99.9 KPA.
I'm at 99.6% TPS.
Both cold and hot WOT TPS tables have a 90% value all the way across (stock).

Since I haven't logged any cell 22 data, I can only say what I see in cell 15. I'm a little lean, so I have +trims. I can be in cell 15 undler mid loads, and see my trim values change. This makes me think that it is making some sort of adjustment in cell15. I can do 2 back to back WOT runs (run, stop, immediately run again), and ltrims will be several points different between the two runs. (+4 for one, +8 the next). If fuel learn is off, how can it adjust those PE trim cells that much between the runs (what data is it using to make the change)?

THanks for the info.

goodhands

I won't bore you with the details but I am Chasing some stubborn KR that only shows less than 1*on a second gear pull and up 6* (ouch!) on a third gear pull (maybe fourth M6) from 2500 rpm. The kr tapers off by say 5200 rpm. Strange though.......no KR on a WOT run through four gears. So I noticed that the kr shows up just at or after PE mode (cell 22). So changing the place at which my pcm enters PE mode is just a test to see if there is any difference in the KR pattern.

Team ZR-1

The only time I see cell 22 in low MAP KPA is when torque management has kicked in, FWHP goes negative:
I hope this can be seen OK but notice when MapKpa drops to 11.

Also notice delTq is negative, pulse width drops, grams/cyc drops.


RPM KR TPS CELL Timing PWB1 MAF MPH MAP DELTQ Load grmcyc MapKpa HPFLYW
6647 0.8 99.6 22 24.5 15.27 35.4 72.7 28.9 285.7 94.1 0.604 98 362
6647 0.8 99.6 22 24.5 15.27 35.4 72.7 28.9 285.7 94.1 0.604 98 362
6647 0.8 99.6 22 24.5 0.41 35.4 72.7 28.9 -111.8 94.1 0.604 98 -142
6647 0.8 99.6 22 24.5 0.41 35.4 71.5 3.2 -111.8 2.7 0.604 11 -142
6238 0.8 99.6 22 34.0 0.41 1.2 71.5 3.2 -111.8 2.7 0.021 11 -133
4199 2.0 99.6 22 25.5 15.61 26.6 63.4 29.8 352.7 62.7 0.718 101 282
4199 2.0 99.6 22 25.5 15.61 26.6 63.4 29.8 352.7 62.7 0.718 101 282

Being what LS1edit calls Cold WOT, TPS at low RPMs would have to be at least 64% and high RPMs around 26% so 12% sounds something funny.

deezel

Hey guys. My 2003 SilvSS also seems to use only cell 15 for WOT runs. I have even played with the WOT enable %tps - lowered it from stock 90% across the board to a progressive decreasing curve. I've tried 50% in all cells. None of these changes affects the cell 15 in WOT runs. I'm pretty sure I've seen cell 22 a few times in my logs, but not during 100%tps runs. I'll look thru some logs later...
On the LTRMS in WOT mode... they say the FTC cell you are in just prior to 100%tps affects the WOT trims. Do you plan to adjust IFR to get the part throttle LTFTs slightly negative?

66ImpalaLT1

I'll post some logs tomorrow. I see cell 22 consistantly at WOT when my MAP is lower than 90, my altitude is high enough that it can never go over 80kpa here. I know some people alternate between cell 15 and 22, because of my altitute I see a similar behavior with cell 11.

Team ZR-1

I would do a testcase where in cold WOT table you drop TPS from that 90 to like 55 at low RPMs and then starting around 3,000 RPMs drop TPS values to like 40% and test that

Also cell 22 tends to be running a AVGERAGE MAF frequency of 10,000 Hz where cell 15 is like 9,000 Hz which is then about 40 lbs min to about 30 lbs min.
With a truck due to how they design MAF and airbridge to gain more torque maybe you have to be pulling high MAF output to reach cell 22.


Here is compares of the 2 cells.

CELLS LTFT-Avg LTFT2-Avg Load-Avg Freq-Avg Tq-Avg MapKpa RPM-AVG Knock TPSAVG TimingAvg MAFAVG INJPWAVG O2AVG Tq HP-AVG Grm-Avg
WOT15 3.51 3.26 70.14 94.61 31.97 92.58 4885 51.3 82.0 27.64 29.46 14.70 0.835 320 301 0.674
PE22 6.91 4.64 80.84 101.44 34.73 95.71 5400 79.65 99.2 27.02 33.91 16.73 0.894 347 354 0.714

66ImpalaLT1

deezel, look for PE delay and PE enable RPM. I think its only in the trucks.

BigTex

iTrader: (16)

66imp - I'll check those parameters too. I looked at them recently, but thought I was meeting all the requirements.

Team ZR1 - I'll make those changes his morning and log the results. As far as MAF goes, I peak around 47 pounds and over 10000 Hz, but I'll double check.

deezel

I attempted to turn this off by setting the delay to 0. What should it be set at? Delay=0 and RPM=0 ??? Thanks.