typhoon1015

iTrader: (5)

Looking at running a 411 pcm and setting it up with a custom os for a 3 bar tune.

Will I be able to delete all the stock O2's and run the SD tune on it?
Can the OS support wideband data to control fuel in closed loop? Or would I just have to run open loop SD tune?

Also will a newer 1mb PCM work with a 3 bar SD tune and E85 better than the 411?

Thanks

macca_779

You can delete the O2's and run 3bar SD just fine but you don't need to delete them to run SD. You will need a custom operating system to see VE resolution above 1 bar though.

The 411 PCM's cannot use a 5v WB signal and process it natively.

No real advantage to using the 1MB PCM that I can think of off hand.

typhoon1015

iTrader: (5)

awesome, thanks. So no closed loop fueling with the wideband, thats kinda sad.

does both hptuners and EFI live have custom OS's for the extended VE and timing tables?

looks like 411 is the way to go then.

Thanks

joecar

Speaking for EFILive: COS's are included for the 411 PCM which support boost VE and timing.

macca_779

Good point on the Boost timing. Pretty sure EFI LIVE is the only one to offer that. But I could be wrong as I pissed my HPT off so I can't check any more.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

There are multiple approaches to getting boost based timing with HPTuner's. EFI Live's method is more direct though. You can fully tune the car with either tuning suite.

macca_779

How do you do it in HPT. Fudge IFR and VE to give higher spark table resolution and then chase all the other tables that relate to correct for it. Screw That. Yet I guess when your forced to do it because the software doesn't allow an accurate way to do it, there isn't any other options.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

No, no IFR scaling. Since you know so much about it though, I'll leave it for you to figure out. You are just so butt-hurt and bitter over HPTuners that makes it impossible for you to see past the blinders or even speak objectively about it.

macca_779

Why not share how your doing it. Is it some big secret? I personally don't really care, bit curious yes, but I'm not going to think for more than 5 min about it as I have a Boost table available. Would certainly help out HPT users if they knew how to do it. Stuffs me how your doing it but its obviously not conventional or we wouldn't have custom OS' that add it.
I'm not bitter about HPT at all. I bought it after all to unlock the stupid way HPT locks PCM's on anything you put a COS in and to tune Fords. Sold it shortly after though when I realised how much it lacked to what I already had and that their Ford support is joke compared to SCT. Hell you bought EFI LIVE, so you must feel something is missing too.

But lets not turn this into a one vs the other argument again as we already know the one that sponsors the fourm automatically has to be better and arguing any other way closes a thread.
Just facts for the OP please, which until you share how its done in HPT remains to be seen possible to the OP if he used HPT.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Boost pressure WOT fuel multipliers in relation to AFR timing is the easiest way in HPT and it works great if you happen to need something like that. Both HPT and EFIlive can do what the OP needs them to do.

macca_779

Those tables don't ring a bell. Is it a unique HPT name for them. It sounds more like a fuel table than a spark timing table.

NicD

iTrader: (7)

One is specific to HPT the other is the standard AFR spark timing table.

macca_779

I never use the Fuel Spark Correction Table as I've never found a need for it and I fail to see how the AFR spark correction table has anything to do with boost as its Axis' are EQ/RPM.

Perhaps you could screen shot the tables your on about. I don't have HPT any more and this so called demo version that is released isn't on the site.

typhoon1015

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the info. Its kinda sad my old OBD1 set up on my typhoon can run a custom bin with extended fueling tables past 30psi as well as WBO2 feedback with desired afr tables. Seems im going backwards with this ls1 stuff.

Im probably going with efi live just for the better documentation of what can and cant be done. ( i have had a hard time finding any real info as far as PCM set up and tuning software is concerned)

NicD

iTrader: (7)

Setting your a/f ratio with the boost table and then using a/f spark table to do the rest is pretty straight forward and would do what needs to be done if in fact you really do want to pull timing based on boost for some reason. Posting up a screen shot for something so simple is too much effort.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

I have, and more than once. It's simple and it's not a secret.

Sorry to sound so grumpy before, but everyone here knows you love EFI Live and dislike HPT, ya just sound like a broken record with it some times. You really aren't EVER going to get over it are you? A good tuner can get the job done with any of the packages, even Edit.

With that said, here is a link with a screen shot and an explanation: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=11

macca_779

Ok I see what you guys are doing. IMO there isn't enough control doing it that way as if I'm understanding it correctly your having to alter eq to modify timing. But it appears you can't lock fuel at say 11.8 and gradually pull timing up to 3bar independently.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

I've never seen locking AFR from low boost to high boost at one value to yield the most tq (or leave you the most comfortable up top); ever.

macca_779

That's probable because you've never had the ability to mould the timing so independently of AFR, that was only an example but its still valid to note you don't need to move fuel that much. Having to alter fuel so much just so you can pull some timing is incredibly flawed. You really do not need to move fuel around that much, timing is where you do the most work with Boost applications which I'm sure you know.

With that solution there simply isn't enough resolution to control enough timing increments with few fuel increments. FFS 0.05EQ steps translates into .73:1 steps in AFR. Sure it might be enough to get you by, but by my reckoning you'll be throwing in way to much fuel just to get a functioning timing table.

This on the other hand is how I do it. 10kpa increments that interpolate. Its nice.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

You really are just a broken record.