pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Thought I had this idling now... but today it wont.

Ive kinda given up on what to do.. no luck w/ anything.

Can anyone look at this tune and see what i might have screwed up?

370ci. truck manifolds, single PT76GTSH, Speed Inc TU1 cam, 9.8:1 compression. E85, Billet Atomizer 160# high Imp injectors, 42spi base fuel pressure.

Idle is set at 1000rpms. When you start it, it is at about 600rpms, smooth, then goes up, still smooth, then after 10 seconds starts surging up and down bad. Even if I hold the throttle down some, bring the RPMs up to 2500, it still is surging up and down.

I am extremely lost here.

Thanks.

Bin file and startup log attached.

2xLS3

iTrader: (3)

Why do you have such a big jump in your timing table at 1600 RPM it goes from 6 degrees at 1200 to 26 at 1600
your timing is bouncing all over the place, in your log

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Because im trying to get it to idle. With these 160# high imp injectors thats what i was told to do. I only dropped the 0-1200 rpms down. Once I get the car to at least idle I can hook my WB up and log away and get it dialed in. But right now its idle is so all over the place a WB wouldnt know what to do.

The way I had my injector table setup on my old setup I had it set at 60 all the way across, then dialed in my VE table from there. These I scaled (I think) so I think my VE table is going to be wacked. Maybe i'll try setting it at 160 all across and see if anything clears up. tomorrow though.. i threw in the towel tonight. 3rd day of trying to get it to just idle.

2xLS3

iTrader: (3)

try lowering the advance up to at least 2500 and see if it reduces the dancing

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Good point. I'll take another stab at this tonight when I get home.

But what im wondering about is it surging when you give it 1/4 throttle and hold it. RPMs go up, but they are still surging up and down. I'll get my WB on it tonight also... im not sure it could be extrmely lean.

Thanks.

wilson34

iTrader: (7)

Can you post a log when you give throttle input?

I was looking around and noticed you do not have p/n idle speed defined only the in gear is set to 1100rpm.
Also, try making the idle underspeed spark adder match the idle overspeed adder but only with positive numbers.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

I'll get one and post it up. I got my WB hooked up (failed miserably trying to get it to integrate to HP Tuners via AC wire but the display on it works).
It is lean as hell. When I first star the car cranking over and initial start it is pig rich, then shoots to lean. Ive added to the VE table and got it to idle a few times for a good amount of time. But it seams to want to keep leaning out all by itself. Like after idling at 14.50ish... it will gradually lean out and max my WB out at 16.00.
When it first starts its at 9.99ish.
I wish there was a book or something to tell you what is going on... like what table does what at what given time. Im about ready to push the car in the river.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

here is the idle ok.. for a bit. I think I gave it some gas it leaned out and died.

Hemi2Slo

To begin with, your cylinder volume is wrong. For a 370 it should be 0.75789. Also, your integral airflow tables and the proportional tables are zeroed out as well. The adaptive idle is there for a reason, and it works well. You should try adjusting these tables to get it to stop surging. Take a look at the those tables in this tune, car has a GM hot cam, which is aggravating to get to idle, and I have no surge. These tables will help control the rpms at idle.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Thanks, but im unable to open file... failed validation check.

Hemi2Slo

Odd, it did that to me when I tried to open your last one a few minutes ago. Must be something with the uploads tonight. Well in that case, try just putting some numbers in the tables. In the Integral low P/N table, try putting .018 in the 650 cell and interpolate back to the 0 cell. Try .04 in the proportional table in cell 650 and interpolate back to cell 450 or so. That should be a good starting place for you. From there just make 10% changes in the table values either up or down. It's kinda an intuitive process and it can be time consuming but it works well when you can get it dialed in. I can go into detail as to how these tables work if you don't know, but I won't hog up the space here. PM if you need a more detailed description.

wilson34

iTrader: (7)

Yea, I forgot to mention that in my post about the adaptive idle controls. Much like other parts of your tune, if it is Park/Neutral the table is zero'd out which it should't be.

To open Hemi's file you may have to have Hptuners Beta installed. PM your email addy if you need beta.

Just open a compare file in the tune repository and you can see how the adaptive idle controls are setup.

wilson34

iTrader: (7)

Also, you have under dynamic air high rpm disable set to 4000rpm, I know the MAF is failed but I like to move this number up anyways. Also, under fuel>ol&cl>close loop proportional fuel values seem off, and the idle proportional is disabled. This may prevent your O2's from oscillating.

What are you using to tune the VE table, WB or LTFT or STFT?

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

I seem to forget more than I remember about this. I go through this same thing ever couple years. Its a 2- bar op system, Primary VE table is what I use. I have no idea what the LTFT and STFT do.
This tune was dialed in perfect w/ my 60# injectors and worked great on a 5.3 w/ a 224/224 .580/.580 112 cam and turbo. Then used it on a 6.0 w/ ls6 cam and turbo, very minor changes to the VE table.

Now I built a new engine, 370, TU1 cam, its like 225/225 .580/580 113, and then high imp 160# injectors... I have no idea if i changed the right stuff for the injectors. I think I scaled them correctly??? Car hasnt ran right since this. Ive gotten it to idle ok with a pulse width of 2.5-2.6 and the AFR was in the 13ish range... so the injectors are capable of idling ok. I think its the VE table and the injectors are all out of whack. And im not sure if I have anything to go back on.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

OK, ive got my WB successfully working and logging. Ive messed w/ my VE table to get it to idle perfectly around 14.5:1 But for some reason the first 4-5 seconds of start up is pig rich.. like 10:1 What table is this in? It barely wants to start and stay running, but when it does after the 4-5 seconds it must then revert to the VE table and idles good.
Thanks.

sho-me speed

iTrader: (55)

Post up your latest scan and file. Also include IAC in your PIDs and get rid of MAF while scanning.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Also I noticed when scanning that the display on my AFX WB matches the table reading, but in the histogram it didnt match. When the table and the display read 16.00 the histogram read lower. ??

Attached is the last scan and the latest tune. I copied and pasted a stock VE table back in tit to start with. I also cut the cranking VE table in half, it fired up a lot faster. When if fired it fired fast then instantly went rich, 10.5ish:1 and then sat there at low rpms for a bit untill slowly going up to idle speed. Seem to idle really good at around 14.5:1 but as soon as I touch the gas it either dies instantly, or if I throttle it fast and keep it going it still wants to go into its surge fit. .. that I think could be just really lean. I only changed messed with the VE table around the squares filled in on idle in the histogram.

sho-me speed

iTrader: (55)

Y so low on the idle timing?

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

Thats what I was told to do by one of the shops that successfully tuned these injectors. ... to cure the idle surge.

But I think its more related to AFR's. Right now it still starts ok, idles low and pig rich for 10 seconds, then starts leaning out, surging, then dies. When it eans out the WB is fluctuating from 9.99 to 16.00 so fast that I cant tell what its doing where.. even logging it the thing is all over the place.
I think since i turned my fuel pressure down my VE table is whacked... and same with the supporting 300 tables that run the idle..
not sure where to even start on this.

pwrtrip75

iTrader: (8)

To the top..... still phucked here. HP Tuners forum is worthless. You must have to suck **** to get any reply there at all.