Disable fuel while reflashing? UPDATE: Cyl fill up with fuel, really quick! HELP!
09-23-2011, 01:15 PM
#1
Disable fuel while reflashing? UPDATE: Cyl fill up with fuel, really quick! HELP! Hey everyone!
Can I disable the fuel pump while reflashing? Here is what happened. As some may know my car has been a nightmare, but seems like I have been slowly sorting it out.
Well the other day before heading out I figure I'll load a new tune, see how it goes. Car ran horribly, so I shut down, threw the old tune back in went to crank, car didn't fire off. Try cranking again, and the car stopped cranking.
Someone suggested I'm hydrolocked on gasoline. I'm pulling plugs today, lo and behold the cylinders are full of gas!
So can I disable the fuel pump somehow when loading a new tune? Lets see, key on to communicate with efi live, fuel pump primes, tune finishes loading, fuel pump primes. You turn the key to start the car, fuel pump primes. TONS OF FUEL! So how do you prevent this? In my case the tune I loaded didn't really run so I shut down and reloaded. Lots of fuel in a short period of time, apparently enough to make my day miserable.
Thoughts? I still have the passenger plugs to pull and turn it over by hand to get all this fuel out, so hopefully I'll have some answers when I get back in here. Thanks!
Can I disable the fuel pump while reflashing? Here is what happened. As some may know my car has been a nightmare, but seems like I have been slowly sorting it out.
Well the other day before heading out I figure I'll load a new tune, see how it goes. Car ran horribly, so I shut down, threw the old tune back in went to crank, car didn't fire off. Try cranking again, and the car stopped cranking.
Someone suggested I'm hydrolocked on gasoline. I'm pulling plugs today, lo and behold the cylinders are full of gas!
So can I disable the fuel pump somehow when loading a new tune? Lets see, key on to communicate with efi live, fuel pump primes, tune finishes loading, fuel pump primes. You turn the key to start the car, fuel pump primes. TONS OF FUEL! So how do you prevent this? In my case the tune I loaded didn't really run so I shut down and reloaded. Lots of fuel in a short period of time, apparently enough to make my day miserable.
Thoughts? I still have the passenger plugs to pull and turn it over by hand to get all this fuel out, so hopefully I'll have some answers when I get back in here. Thanks!
Last edited by camar0corey; 09-23-2011 at 08:12 PM. Reason: title change
09-23-2011, 02:19 PM
#3
Do the injectors also fire while cranking? I've noticed after a reflash it takes it a while to fire off? So I'm not sure if due to the two back to back reflashes I had a ton of fuel?
I'm not sure but maybe the PCM was suspect and dumping more fuel that it should during cranking?
For some reason I had way too much fuel there, I just cranked the motor a few rotations by hand and fuel came out of every cylinder.
Injectors are new 30 lb/hr Ford redtops.
I'm not sure but maybe the PCM was suspect and dumping more fuel that it should during cranking?
For some reason I had way too much fuel there, I just cranked the motor a few rotations by hand and fuel came out of every cylinder.
Injectors are new 30 lb/hr Ford redtops.
09-23-2011, 04:27 PM
#6
There is no need to disable pump while flashing. The PCM primes the pump then shuts it off until the engine is started.
It doesn't matter how many times you open/close ignition switch, the injectors won't let fuel pass.
If the cylinders are flooding with fuel then you have a problem. It may be leaking injectors, or faulty PCM (damaged injector drivers are activating when they shouldn't).
Everybody flash their PCM with no problems.
It doesn't matter how many times you open/close ignition switch, the injectors won't let fuel pass.
If the cylinders are flooding with fuel then you have a problem. It may be leaking injectors, or faulty PCM (damaged injector drivers are activating when they shouldn't).
Everybody flash their PCM with no problems.
09-23-2011, 06:37 PM
#7
Alright, so cranked for two seconds, then it filled up with fuel again! New PCM. I'll test the injectors tomorrow, I don't have any injector clips though, they won't pop out? I'm gonna be pissed if brand new injectors are leaking.
Should the pump, pump the whole time while cranking? For some reason it fills up with fuel, and fast.
Should the pump, pump the whole time while cranking? For some reason it fills up with fuel, and fast.
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09-23-2011, 10:06 PM
#9
After you sort out the fuel issue, it'll be a good idea to change your oil & filter.
The oil will have a good deal of gas in it, and oil pressure will be significantly lower than it should be because of the gas/oil.
I changed my oil twice...first time was to drain gas/oil mix from crankcase, then fill with the cheapest oil I could find. Run the engine just long enough to wash....then drain. The second change allowed the cheap oil & any further gas residue to be flushed from the crankcase. Then refill crankcase with your normal oil and change filter. Oil pressure went back up significantly.
The oil will have a good deal of gas in it, and oil pressure will be significantly lower than it should be because of the gas/oil.
I changed my oil twice...first time was to drain gas/oil mix from crankcase, then fill with the cheapest oil I could find. Run the engine just long enough to wash....then drain. The second change allowed the cheap oil & any further gas residue to be flushed from the crankcase. Then refill crankcase with your normal oil and change filter. Oil pressure went back up significantly.
09-24-2011, 07:41 AM
#10
Since all cyls are full, I'm betting there's an electrical problem taking all 8 injs to ground.
I seriously doubt all 8 are "stuck open"..
BTW: IF THE INJS ARE NOT CLIPPED IN, DO NOT TRY THE "OUT OF THE INTAKE" IDEA. Better yet, don't do it!
Key on, engine off: Test the harness + and - with a test lite across the 2 connectors. Should NOT see the lite on. If you do get the lite, that means the inj would be commanded on, and would flow fuel as long as the circuit is made.
A noid lite would make the same test....
I seriously doubt all 8 are "stuck open"..
BTW: IF THE INJS ARE NOT CLIPPED IN, DO NOT TRY THE "OUT OF THE INTAKE" IDEA. Better yet, don't do it!
Key on, engine off: Test the harness + and - with a test lite across the 2 connectors. Should NOT see the lite on. If you do get the lite, that means the inj would be commanded on, and would flow fuel as long as the circuit is made.
A noid lite would make the same test....
09-24-2011, 08:50 AM
#11
Gotcha, gonna get a test light. Also another thing I am going to check as suggested over on efiliveforum is to pull the hose off my fuel pressure regulator. They said if there is fuel in the vacuum line the inside of the regulator has ruptured?
09-24-2011, 10:34 AM
#12
Since all cyls are full, I'm betting there's an electrical problem taking all 8 injs to ground.
I seriously doubt all 8 are "stuck open"..
BTW: IF THE INJS ARE NOT CLIPPED IN, DO NOT TRY THE "OUT OF THE INTAKE" IDEA. Better yet, don't do it!
A noid lite would make the same test....
I seriously doubt all 8 are "stuck open"..
BTW: IF THE INJS ARE NOT CLIPPED IN, DO NOT TRY THE "OUT OF THE INTAKE" IDEA. Better yet, don't do it!
A noid lite would make the same test....
There are 8 separate grounds/1 for each cylinder/injector. So, the prob won't be here, I think.
The noid light is a good place to start. Seems like you'll find a noid which is on full-time (instead of flashing/normal). Check every inj, in turn, while the fuel pump fuse is disabled.
I did the fuel rail off the intake 'thing'. It just made a big mess, and as Cal said, you can accomplish the same thing with the noid under these circumstances.
If the noid shows normal operation, then you might assume that some injectors are stuck open.
09-24-2011, 11:11 AM
#13
OK the fuel pressure regulator is shot! Took off the vacuum line, didn't show much fuel in it. Turned the key to on, shot fuel everywhere.
So now my question, if fuel has been able to freely go down the vacuum line, could the vacuum from cranking be sucking fuel through the intake manifold and dumping it in the cylinders? I could see it drowning the spark out and filling up. Logical or improbable?
So now my question, if fuel has been able to freely go down the vacuum line, could the vacuum from cranking be sucking fuel through the intake manifold and dumping it in the cylinders? I could see it drowning the spark out and filling up. Logical or improbable?
09-24-2011, 11:18 PM
#15
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Yes. there should be no fuel in that line. I get many 3.4s 3.8s and 2.2s that come in for that very problem. The diaphragm in the regulator ruptures and the intake manifold vac. along with fuel pressure just dumps that **** in there and floods the cylinders. All of the cars I have done have started, but ran very poorly and cooked catalytic converters due to dumping gas down the exhaust.
09-25-2011, 11:53 AM
#17
Well loaded a tune from awhile back that ran the car OK. Took it for a drive, had the laptop with me this drive. Car was alright, no stumbling, but the fuel trims look interesting, its adding 25% to bank 1?
Datalog 1.
Datalog 2.
Datalog 1.
Datalog 2.
