how important is ifr on a speed density tune 60lb siemens
11-26-2011, 09:18 AM
#1
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how important is ifr on a speed density tune 60lb siemens so im starting to tune in my turbo setup with 60lb motos. fuel system is twin pump with stock rails and lines, so no afpr. im assuming with a speed density tune that the IFR is not going to be a make or break thing on the tune. since i will be running openloop speed density IFR shouldnt matter too much since the VE table will dial in the final fueling anyways (ve table may not be "accurate" but final AFR result is all i care about..). just trying to figure out if im spending too much effort in dialing in the IFR table. I mean the IFR is gonna be out of wack anyways with no AFPR.
11-26-2011, 02:51 PM
#2
To have a correct VE, you need correct injector data. Running open loop, it's even more important your injector data, and more, are as correct, and precise as possible. You won't have any fuel trims to help correct the fueling.
With 60 lb injectors in a smaller motor, if your data isn't correct, you'll have idle issues, return to idle issues, and it will be a PITA to tune in general.
With 60 lb injectors in a smaller motor, if your data isn't correct, you'll have idle issues, return to idle issues, and it will be a PITA to tune in general.
11-26-2011, 03:58 PM
#3
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Under steady state conditions, the VE table can be used to statically correct for an incorrect IFR (as long as the IFR is the correct slope for the FPR), and you will achieve your target AFR...
but under any other conditions (what you see in a daily driver) fueling will be sufficiently wrong and inconsistent to the point of being a concern, see what Ed said above.
Also, an incorrect VE table can screw with other things like the airflow diagnostics, traction control, and auto trans line pressure.
Also, you don't "dial in" the IFR... you either set it from a datasheet or you calculate it using parameters from a datasheet (and in either case you first measure rail pressure and correct any fuel delivery problems).
but under any other conditions (what you see in a daily driver) fueling will be sufficiently wrong and inconsistent to the point of being a concern, see what Ed said above.
Also, an incorrect VE table can screw with other things like the airflow diagnostics, traction control, and auto trans line pressure.
Also, you don't "dial in" the IFR... you either set it from a datasheet or you calculate it using parameters from a datasheet (and in either case you first measure rail pressure and correct any fuel delivery problems).
11-27-2011, 08:24 AM
#5
Verifying correct injector data is the 1st step any legit tuner will start with in any scenario...
I have tuning data info. for the following Siemens injectors:
PN # M-9593-LU60 (Tall)
PN # FI114962 (Short)
Which do you have?
I have tuning data info. for the following Siemens injectors:
PN # M-9593-LU60 (Tall)
PN # FI114962 (Short)
Which do you have?
12-03-2011, 09:44 AM
#6
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I have the same problem here. I have the data for my injector (short Siemens), but there are multiple flow rates in my data...even it states they are rated at static 58 PSI there are like three damn tables. I got my data from the Greg Banish DVD's. Also, when I copy and paste the short pulse adder, it auto corrects to another value...anyone else have these issue's?
12-03-2011, 10:04 PM
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Mike
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12-04-2011, 02:00 PM
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12-05-2011, 12:34 PM
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In the absence of a regulated and boost-referenced full return system, which is generally the more effective method for setting IFRs on a dead-end fuel system (in an FI application):
Assume constant rail pressure (58psi) and then specify IFRs according to the manifold delta P (thereby baking the resulting fuel delivery errors into the MAF/VE tables)?
OR
Create histogram of logged rail pressure versus MAP and then specify IFRs according to collected data (data from one or two logs is probably not going to be all that accurate/repeatable)?
Assume constant rail pressure (58psi) and then specify IFRs according to the manifold delta P (thereby baking the resulting fuel delivery errors into the MAF/VE tables)?
OR
Create histogram of logged rail pressure versus MAP and then specify IFRs according to collected data (data from one or two logs is probably not going to be all that accurate/repeatable)?
12-06-2011, 10:18 PM
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thanks for all the replies! looks like i have some work to do
i have the stock replacement size. not sure of the part number, but stock height. any help is geatly appreciated! thanks man
these are the ones i ordered http://www.corvetteinjectors.com/sho...?productid=358
these are the ones i ordered http://www.corvetteinjectors.com/sho...?productid=358
Awaiting answer to above question...
12-08-2011, 11:45 PM
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Injector Data 114962 [QUOTE=turbolx;15692769]Did you actually watch the DVD? This is covered in there in pretty good detail. 
[/QUOTE
Is there an easy way to convert the data to fit within the 2010 Camaro HP tuners tables.
"Flow rate vs Pressure" - the new tables referances "pressure delta" from 18.6 to 111.4 and not "Flow rate vs kpa".
and
Offset vs Press vs Ignv.
Great DVD series BTW I am learning a great deal from both.
Any help would be greatly apprecieated.
[/QUOTEIs there an easy way to convert the data to fit within the 2010 Camaro HP tuners tables.
"Flow rate vs Pressure" - the new tables referances "pressure delta" from 18.6 to 111.4 and not "Flow rate vs kpa".
and
Offset vs Press vs Ignv.
Great DVD series BTW I am learning a great deal from both.
Any help would be greatly apprecieated.
12-11-2011, 01:53 PM
#14
I emailed Greg Banish on Hp Tuners for you...
Answer:
Answer:
Originally Posted by eficalibrator
First, do yourself a favor and stop using English units. PSI is a pain in the ***, switch to kPa.
Once you get over that, you just need to realize that the normal rail pressure is 400kPa DELTA (58psi gauge). This means that at atmospheric pressure in the manifold (WOT for NA engines), there is a difference (delta) of 400kPa across the injector. More vacuum in the manifold with the same rail pressure means a bigger delta. So a MAP value of 70kPa is a delta of 430kPa. Capice?
Once you get over that, you just need to realize that the normal rail pressure is 400kPa DELTA (58psi gauge). This means that at atmospheric pressure in the manifold (WOT for NA engines), there is a difference (delta) of 400kPa across the injector. More vacuum in the manifold with the same rail pressure means a bigger delta. So a MAP value of 70kPa is a delta of 430kPa. Capice?
12-12-2011, 09:25 AM
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Thanks!
I already had scaled all the tables by converting them from kPa to psi (6.894757) I wasn't sure if this would work or If I was missing something. I didnt even think of changing from english units to metric. I still need to scale the tables a little to perfectly match the tables I am looking at but it looks close.
Thanks for your help
I already had scaled all the tables by converting them from kPa to psi (6.894757) I wasn't sure if this would work or If I was missing something. I didnt even think of changing from english units to metric. I still need to scale the tables a little to perfectly match the tables I am looking at but it looks close.
Thanks for your help
12-12-2011, 03:31 PM
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Launching!
