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EFI live, 160lb injs, E85, resistors, only runs WITHOUT the fuel pump on?

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Old 05-02-2012, 08:29 PM   #1
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Default EFI live, 160lb injs, E85, resistors, only runs WITHOUT the fuel pump on?

This is strange. I can get my car to fire up if I turn the fuel pump on for a few seconds and then shut it off. After doing this I fire it up and it idles and revs. Not perfect but not far off. As soon as you turn the fuel pump on the car floods out. Any ideas? I have another pcm that is tuned using Hptuners and it runs and idles fine. I transfered everything to from that tune to an EFI live tune but obviously I have done something wrong. I am thinking it has to be with the injector settings but today I tried everything and still couldn't get it to run with the fuel pump on. How crazy is that?

Please help before I give up on EFI live.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:57 PM   #2
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So when the fuel pump is off, how's the engine getting fuel...?

It runs fine on your other PCM, but it runs bad (flooding) with this PCM...

I'm thinking maybe the IFR is incorrect for these injectors and/or fuel rail pressure.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:57 AM   #3
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If you transferred from a known good tune, then I'd suggest it being something with the 2 bar or 3 bar setup. I'm not familiar how efi live does it, but with hp tuners if you want to have a boost setup, you have to have the custom operating software that makes your ve table go up to boost kpa's. Check to see if that's it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Camarod View Post
If you transferred from a known good tune, then I'd suggest it being something with the 2 bar or 3 bar setup. I'm not familiar how efi live does it, but with hp tuners if you want to have a boost setup, you have to have the custom operating software that makes your ve table go up to boost kpa's. Check to see if that's it.
That's not it. Hptuners has the VE table that has normal and boost. EFI live has a Main VE table and then a boost table. The end of the Main VE is 105kpa and the beginning of the boost table is 105kpa. I just set the tune up for Main VE first and then highlighted the entire 105kpa and clicked "copy with labels" I then "pasted with labels" in the 105kpa column in the Boost VE table and then finished the tune up to 20lbs of boost even though I only hit 15lbs. So I don't think that is it. It may not be perfect but it should at least run with how I have the VE tables. It has to be something with how the injector information or the fuel pump being on a toggle switch and NOT being run by the computer. With everything else the car should at least run. It may run like **** at first but it should fire up.
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Wicked69 View Post
That's not it. Hptuners has the VE table that has normal and boost. EFI live has a Main VE table and then a boost table. The end of the Main VE is 105kpa and the beginning of the boost table is 105kpa. I just set the tune up for Main VE first and then highlighted the entire 105kpa and clicked "copy with labels" I then "pasted with labels" in the 105kpa column in the Boost VE table and then finished the tune up to 20lbs of boost even though I only hit 15lbs. So I don't think that is it. It may not be perfect but it should at least run with how I have the VE tables. It has to be something with how the injector information or the fuel pump being on a toggle switch and NOT being run by the computer. With everything else the car should at least run. It may run like **** at first but it should fire up.
It was my first guess.

My second guess would be that your fuel pressure is too high or the IFR isn't correct for the fuel pressure your running.

Whats your base pressure and how'd you set it? Can you post both of your tunes?
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:29 AM   #6
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Do you have the .cax file for your OS so that you can lower the injector minimum pulse width on table B9021 below the hard limit?

Sounds like you have an EFILive custom operating system - was it installed into the PCM correctly using the tutuorial?

Post up your tune so we can take a look at it...
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:49 PM   #7
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Are you sure it pasted the VE table correctly since EFI and HPT have the axis flipped?
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:53 PM   #8
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Are you sure you didn't mix up your units?

With a vette FPR ~60 psi you should have something like this in grams/sec:

23.278763
23.423843
23.568030
23.711341
23.853790
23.995394
24.136167
24.276124
24.415279
24.553644
24.691235
24.828063
24.964141
25.099482
25.234096
25.367996
25.501193
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:33 PM   #9
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I wonder if the toggle switch does have something to do with it not starting. My turbo s10 is almost done and I also have a toggle switch and my truck won't start either; but I haven't tried starting it without the pump on yet
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98Camarod View Post
It was my first guess.

My second guess would be that your fuel pressure is too high or the IFR isn't correct for the fuel pressure your running.

Whats your base pressure and how'd you set it? Can you post both of your tunes?
I will. My base pressure is 50psi. That is off the regulator that is off the rails.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minytrker View Post
Are you sure it pasted the VE table correctly since EFI and HPT have the axis flipped?
Yes. That was what made it a pain in the *** to type in manually. Reading one direction and using the tab button for the other direction.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:27 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJEngineering View Post
Are you sure you didn't mix up your units?

With a vette FPR ~60 psi you should have something like this in grams/sec:

23.278763
23.423843
23.568030
23.711341
23.853790
23.995394
24.136167
24.276124
24.415279
24.553644
24.691235
24.828063
24.964141
25.099482
25.234096
25.367996
25.501193
Yes. Very similar but off the top of my head I think it started with 21.... However, today I had someone with HPtuners pull the tune off my pcm that works and what we found that was interesting is the IFR is in lbs per hour but it doesn't say 160 for a value but 69 and working it's way up to 80. Is it possible he did this to help with the problem of flooding the engine with too big of an injector? I am a 100% sure that I have 160lb injectors but his numbers are very low (69) my main VE table is also very low numbers. Any ideas if this may be the reason the tune works? Maybe 160 is the correct number on paper but is just feeding it way too much fuel with those numbers punched in.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK02WS6 View Post
Do you have the .cax file for your OS so that you can lower the injector minimum pulse width on table B9021 below the hard limit?

Sounds like you have an EFILive custom operating system - was it installed into the PCM correctly using the tutuorial?

Post up your tune so we can take a look at it...
Here is the tune that we pulled up on my pcm that has an HPTuners on it. This tune was pulled off today. This is the tune that allows the car to idle, cruise and not miss a beat at WOT. I have driven it over 1500 miles with the big injectors and resistors, and ran 6.83 in the 1/8 with this tune. Very conservative. If you notice my IFR is extremely low. I looked at my old tune where the tuner had a hard time getting it to run and the IFR said 160 across the board.
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File Type: hpt delbertcurrenttuneHPT.hpt (467.7 KB, 47 views)
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:38 PM   #14
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Here is the EFI live tune that I cannot get to work. I have not tried lowering the IFR to 69 yet as per the HPtune. It is a COS3 and yes it was done correctly.

I am also sending a second tune that we tried. The one that says Lamba was the one that I was messing with. That is the one that starts the car but without the fuel pump on. The other tune is one that someone did for me that is does them all the time.
Attached Files
File Type: tun Delberts 5.3, DBC, COS3,lamba.tun (480.9 KB, 61 views)
File Type: tun Delberts 5.3, DBC, COS3, 01270003.tun (481.0 KB, 87 views)
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Old 05-05-2012, 12:09 AM   #15
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I see alot of inconsistencies between the the different tunes.The stoich value in the HPT tune is 14.68 (gas) and the stoich value in the EFILive tune is 9.80 (E85) and in one of the tunes it's 1.00. There's also discrepancies in the IFR values in the EFILive tunes; 1 has a range of from 159 to 168 lb/hr, one with the same values in all cells (171) and another with wild numbers. Confirm what injectors are installed, then get the correct data, set the stoich based on gas or E85, then tune from there. Once again, something was lost in translation when converting the tunes.
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Old 05-05-2012, 01:00 AM   #16
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I agree with DrkPhx. The tunes are not the same at all. EFI isnt the problem. If the car runs on the HPT tune why are you trying to copy it to EFI?
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Old 05-05-2012, 09:57 AM   #17
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I agree with DrkPhx. The tunes are not the same at all. EFI isnt the problem. If the car runs on the HPT tune why are you trying to copy it to EFI?
Because I don't own HPtuners and cannot tune it with that. I didn't build the car to just drive around. 6.83 in the 1/8th is no where near what I built the car for. I own EFI live and want to be able to tune it with such. The only tuner is a 3 hr drive round trip and he happened to tune with HPtuners. The car was there for 3 weeks. I have no desire to do that to make a small change here and there. I want to be able to tune myself.

Again, maybe I am not explaining the correct. The tune you see for HP is what we pulled off my computer. That is NOT, NOT, NOT the hptune I tried to copy. I tried to copy the HPtune that I was told was in my pcm but when we read the pcm it had the IFR set at low numbers like 69 in the first table. Right or wrong that is the tune in the pcm that runs and runs good (not great)
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:50 AM   #18
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Unrelated but I have the opposite problem, my tuner guy uses EFI live and I about bought HP before I found out. I called to be sure he had hp tuner and he said no efi. I went oh...he goes you already bought HP tuner didn't you? Luckily I had not. good luck I'm going efi live myself.
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:00 AM   #19
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Why couldn't you just read what was on the computer with the efi live and modify that since it was already running? Can you not do that?
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Why couldn't you just read what was on the computer with the efi live and modify that since it was already running? Can you not do that?
No when you do a custom os with HPT it locks out EFI, same if you do a custom os with EFI it locks out HPT.
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