themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

Hey everyone, I wanted to post this in the Auto Trans section, but I'm starting to suspect it's a tune issue... so please help!

The car is a 2000 Camaro with a 347 and 4l60e. The motor is very mild, LS6 cam, 799 heads milled to 62.5cc, long tubes, LS6 intake, even the crank is only 10% underdrive (Powerbond). Idles nicely at 700rpm, I'm very pleased with the motor side

On the trans side, I have a Performabuilt stage 2 with a 10.5" 2800 stall converter. This is my first experience with a smaller converter, much less a converter other than stock!

So here's the issue: the car doesn't shift to third unless I select non-overdrive at the gear selector. If I'm driving along in city driving, it will go 1-2-4, regardless of throttle input. So it could go 1st to 3500RPM to 2nd to 3500RPM to 4th at 1500RPM! If I have the selector in D (not OD), it will go to 3rd with no perceived issue. If I shift it from D to OD and it was in 3rd, it will downshift and shift to 4th. So I have a 3rd gear, it just doesn't want to go there unless I select 3rd. I mean, it will go straight from 2500RPM in 2nd to 1200RPM in 4th!

The tune was done by a sponsor, but I'm suspecting nothing was done for transmission compensation and the car thinks everything's stock from the flexplate back. Is that a fair assumption? Is there something in the tune I could tweek if I had HPTuners?

Thanks in advance for the help, guys!

SMOKINV8

iTrader: (6)

It's possible. What you're describing though really sounds like the converter locking up rather than shifting into 4th.

If you had HPTuners you could scan to see what gear the transmission is in to verify whether it's tune related or not.

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

Well you've got an interesting point there, 4th usually hits HARD. Like, it feels like instant lock up when 4th is engaged. I need to get another OBDII diagnostic tool anyway since my last one crapped out, I'll just have to make sure it can read data and check to see what gear it's indicating as I drive it around...

In the mean time, is there another way I can tell for sure if it's the converter locking up?

Any more thoughts? Converter locking up? Tune? Other?

SMOKINV8

iTrader: (6)

Depends on whether or not your misfire tables were disabled or not in the tune. You could unplug an injector harness to cause a misfire. Converter won't lock up if the PCM see's a misfire.

flame

iTrader: (13)

When it happens just keep your foot steady on the throttle and lighty press the brake pedal. That will unlock the converter temporarily.

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

Alright, the fuel injector harness and brake/accelerator methods sound like a good test for whether it's locked, I'll try those out. I'm on nights right now so testing these methods won't happen immediately, but soon... Thanks for the feedback so far, guys!

I got a different perspective today from a guy who sounded almost dead set that it was "junk in a valve body". He said junk may have gotten in, not allowing a particular ball to fall back. He said that what I've described (manually selecting 3rd but otherwise no 3rd) is symptomatic of a stuck valve body ball. He said to run a large magnet under the pan to accumulate all the metal debris, drain the pan and try it again. I'm reluctant to drain the pan immediately, since this is much more complicated than getting a scanner on it, but it got me thinking.

Now I'm kinda dipping into the Auto Trans section, but does the stuck valve body ball make sense as a potential culprit?

I'm set on the HP Tuners Basic tuning suite, hopefully this will shed some light on the issue. I'll also add videos when I get a chance. Please keep the input coming, guys!

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

I was just reading through the Auto Trans Tuning sticky in preparation for the arrival of my recently ordered HP Tuners and remembered... I still have 3.23 gears in the car! I had it tuned for 3.42 since I was going to throw a rebuilt rear end in there, but I haven't yet done so. It seems to be a pretty common theme throughout the sticky that RPM and MPH are the criteria for shifts. Since I'm actually reading slower MPH than I'm doing, is this contributing to my issue?

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

Update:

Monday I took the car to a local shop. I described what was wrong and he took a look with his scanner. No trouble codes, but that was expected. So I offered to let him drive.

On the drive, he was able to unlock and re-lock the converter by applying the brake (as described above, thanks for the tip!). And then he showed me where it WAS shifting into 3rd!

So what's the problem? I'm just not used to a stall where it seems like all the gears are "slipping" in so soft. No problem at all, just not used to a stall.

The thing is, it seems like I'm trying to race everyone from a stop while I'm just trying to get up to 40mph. I selected the 2800rpm stall based on everyone on LS1Tech saying "oh yeah, bolt-on car needs to be at 3200+ stall!" without asking for an intended use of the car, as well as the suggestion of a vendor here who DID know what my intended use was: DD. I purchased a 2000 stall converter that will be here Friday.

So, in conclusion, the trans is fine. The converter is, IMO, NOT a DD converter for an LS6 cam/LS6 heads/bolt-on car. Since I didn't have a "Help me pick a converter" thread and only relied on one vendor's recommendation, I can't really say "shame on you, LS1Tech", but in the future, perhaps we should ask what the intended use of the car is before recommending 3600 stalls...

Thanks for all y'all's help, guys! I learned some great troubleshooting tools here, and my trans is fine

roninsonic

iTrader: (3)

oh, poppycock.... I DD on a yank 4000SS just fine.... DBAP, holmes

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

What converter was it?

My 3600 feels like what most people would expect from a 2400rpm converter under most circumstances. Shifts are plenty firm.

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

LOL, good use of the word poppycock... haha! Yeah, I can understand how the term daily driver can vary from person to person, but for me, revving to the moon to get rolling isn't conducive to my driving habits on a daily basis. I have my M6 383 for that role

... And in the future I'll try not to be such a penguin with my converter choice

I'll send you a PM...

roninsonic

iTrader: (3)

Just bustin' your *****, man. My view of "DD" is pretty skewed... I DD my car with a stalled auto, 4.10's, Bigs and littles, no front sway, no heat or A/C, running in open loop... So, yeah, my view is pretty skewed

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Sounds like a crap converter to me. Who built the converter?

My car has a 5000 converter in it right now.. 2500 RPM pick up puts me right with traffic from a take off... 3000 RPM and I am pulling away from the normal flow of traffic. 3500 RPM and someone would have to be on it to stay with me.

A 2800 converter shouldn't even be noticeable, a 2200 or something won't be at all.. A stock converter is 1800-2000. A 3200 is noticeable but still extremely DD friendly. After a weeks worth of driving you would forget about it. A 3600 is getting up there is a little mixed between performance/DD trade offs... A 4000 is more performance oriented but still DD for the little more "hard core" guys, not too much of a difference from a 3600 normal driving. 4000+ and it is hard to hide converters that loose.

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

I know, it's cool but damn, that's definitely not MY kinda DD, LOL!

Aww, see, what tha hail!?! That's what I was expecting from what the vendor had told me! Guess they'll tell you anything to sell a converter... it is a tranny vendor on here, so I'd prefer not to call them out. But see, that kind of driving would probably be fine for me. It's just the revving to 3k just to see the car creep forward that pisses me off.

I'm uploading a video to Photobucket... you're going to laugh at how quiet my car is!

lemons12

iTrader: (71)

Send me a pm with the sponsor.. I might have some insight and point you in the right direction. I Will keep the name from the public per your request. I hate to see a converter that small go in when a larger better built converter Will perform better and act the same.

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

Will do, Lemons. I'd hate to regret another converter as well, but ya know...

Now this is the first video I've taken on my neat little Nokia Lumia 920, sound is pretty low, but the tach and speedo say it all I think. The first pull is from a stop with the shifter in D, second is the same, and the third before video ends is with the selector in 3. Sorry for all the cruising time, but hopefully this helps...

themealonwheels

iTrader: (20)

Update: Done with it all. I put a 2200 stall in it and said **** it all. It really hits hard on shifts and really feels good at low RPM. And now I can distinguish each gear rather than that mushy, is there a 3rd? feeling. Plus I'm not trying to race everyone from a stop anymore!

Also, that rumble at low RPM was the aftermarket rubber tranny mount contacting the bottom bolts for the tail housing. I trimmed the metal tabs and everything is good.

So thanks everyone for the input, guess I'm just a *****