Using the GM flex fuel sensor on an Fbody
10-07-2014, 07:42 PM
#101
Yes sir, I posted earlier in this thread the sensor that was used, it's the newer $100 not the old $400 sensor. Added it to the return line, wired into pin 56 in the Blue pcm connector and it immediately started reading alcohol. Only bummer is that it doesn't seem to add any timing, this is the main reason for adding it. Running 15lbs on a 9:5.1 ERL 427 and wanted to be able to add 3 or 4 degrees via the alcohol adder table AND be able to switch to 91 octane when needed and not have to have the laptop. My 06 did not recognize E85 from the o2's, filled up and trims went +25 but it was originally a 5.3 vin T not vin Z which is the factory flex engine. It did have all the alcohol tables populated from factory though so I was hopeful but it didn't work. I suspect the combination of not originally being flex fuel and being on a 2 bar custom os is why it isn't working. Seems to me there would need to be something, like the IAT Bias table, that says x amount alcohol add x amount from the adder table. Obviously, it can't add the full 3 degree's with 25% alcohol like it could at 80% alcohol...I just can't believe I'm apparently the only one to notice this, I started a thread on HPT but nobody chimes up over there.
10-08-2014, 08:31 AM
#103
Yes sir, I posted earlier in this thread the sensor that was used, it's the newer $100 not the old $400 sensor. Added it to the return line, wired into pin 56 in the Blue pcm connector and it immediately started reading alcohol. Only bummer is that it doesn't seem to add any timing, this is the main reason for adding it. Running 15lbs on a 9:5.1 ERL 427 and wanted to be able to add 3 or 4 degrees via the alcohol adder table AND be able to switch to 91 octane when needed and not have to have the laptop. My 06 did not recognize E85 from the o2's, filled up and trims went +25 but it was originally a 5.3 vin T not vin Z which is the factory flex engine. It did have all the alcohol tables populated from factory though so I was hopeful but it didn't work. I suspect the combination of not originally being flex fuel and being on a 2 bar custom os is why it isn't working. Seems to me there would need to be something, like the IAT Bias table, that says x amount alcohol add x amount from the adder table. Obviously, it can't add the full 3 degree's with 25% alcohol like it could at 80% alcohol...I just can't believe I'm apparently the only one to notice this, I started a thread on HPT but nobody chimes up over there.
As for the alcohol spark adder tables, I have not even looked at those yet. I'll play with that a bit today.
Do you have a link to your thread on hptuners?
10-08-2014, 07:30 PM
#104
Pm topgun542, he has a thread where he says it worked for him https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagn...flex-fuel.html
10-08-2014, 07:38 PM
#105
I have an 05 and I'm having issues with HPtuners as well. I have had the car running well on e85 so far. My issue is I cannot make hptuners show the "alcohol percent". Which parameter are you logging that shows the ethanol content?
As for the alcohol spark adder tables, I have not even looked at those yet. I'll play with that a bit today.
Do you have a link to your thread on hptuners?
As for the alcohol spark adder tables, I have not even looked at those yet. I'll play with that a bit today.
Do you have a link to your thread on hptuners?
10-08-2014, 11:23 PM
#106
Yes sir, I posted earlier in this thread the sensor that was used, it's the newer $100 not the old $400 sensor. Added it to the return line, wired into pin 56 in the Blue pcm connector and it immediately started reading alcohol. Only bummer is that it doesn't seem to add any timing, this is the main reason for adding it. Running 15lbs on a 9:5.1 ERL 427 and wanted to be able to add 3 or 4 degrees via the alcohol adder table AND be able to switch to 91 octane when needed and not have to have the laptop. My 06 did not recognize E85 from the o2's, filled up and trims went +25 but it was originally a 5.3 vin T not vin Z which is the factory flex engine. It did have all the alcohol tables populated from factory though so I was hopeful but it didn't work. I suspect the combination of not originally being flex fuel and being on a 2 bar custom os is why it isn't working. Seems to me there would need to be something, like the IAT Bias table, that says x amount alcohol add x amount from the adder table. Obviously, it can't add the full 3 degree's with 25% alcohol like it could at 80% alcohol...I just can't believe I'm apparently the only one to notice this, I started a thread on HPT but nobody chimes up over there.
I also haven't played with E85 as the closest station is a bit of a drive in the opposite direction for me.
10-09-2014, 08:11 AM
#107
HPT Thread http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...cohol-settings. The parameter for me was under the fuel tab in the scanner. You probably know this but right click in an open space in the table, then open "fuel", then it should be listed right there. If it isn't there you might have to "clear last used vehicle" under the tools tab, then when you reconnect it will scan for the "supported parameters". Its been a while since I've hooked up to a different vehicle but I'm pretty sure it won't let you see every available parameter, only the ones your specific set-up supports. You do have to have the sensor hooked up and functioning for the pcm to know e85 %. Have you done all that?
The issue I was having turned out to be an issue in the calibration. I was using the 05 savanna base file and I had all the flex fuel functions and tables populated. I've been driving the car around on e85 with no issues, however in the VCM scanner, I could not get the "alcohol percent" to change from 0% or the commanded AFR to change.
Yesterday I decided to pony up 2 credits for an 05 Avalanche flex fuel tune to fix the logging issues. I used the new "segment swapper" feature and swapped over the 4l80e segment to the avalanche tune. Immediately when I started scanning, the "alcohol percent" read 33% and the commanded AFR adjusted accordingly as well. So, small win.
After trying the Avalanche file and playing with the segment swapper tool, I seen you can actually swap over the engine segment. Taking the base 05 Savanna file and the 05 flex fuel file, I swapped over the engine segment and this accomplished the same thing. I had full flex fuel capabilities including logging and this route does not cost any credits! Too bad I already wasted $100!
The 05 Avalanche is a DBW vehicle and I'm using DBC. This posed to not be an issue at all. The calibration has all the parameters for the iac and they are all populated so the motor ran just fine with the DBW tune. As long as the PCM is from a DBC vehicle it will operate a DBC engine regardless of the OS. This seems to be true for the P59 ecm's and I'm betting the P01 ecm's as well.
I still haven't played with flex fuel adder tables yet. Recently, I swapped my 3 bar brick style sensor for the ls9 map and my injectors for ID1000s. These changes are giving me some issues that I'm sorting out yet.
The following users liked this post:
Static1 (01-01-2023)
10-09-2014, 09:24 AM
#109
11 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Idaho
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More good info guys!
I was wondering the same thing looking at the tables, how would it calculate the amount of additional timing without a multiplier based on ethanol content?
Just to clarify, which OS did you start with and do the 2bar upgrade on?
Yes sir, I posted earlier in this thread the sensor that was used, it's the newer $100 not the old $400 sensor. Added it to the return line, wired into pin 56 in the Blue pcm connector and it immediately started reading alcohol. Only bummer is that it doesn't seem to add any timing, this is the main reason for adding it. Running 15lbs on a 9:5.1 ERL 427 and wanted to be able to add 3 or 4 degrees via the alcohol adder table AND be able to switch to 91 octane when needed and not have to have the laptop. My 06 did not recognize E85 from the o2's, filled up and trims went +25 but it was originally a 5.3 vin T not vin Z which is the factory flex engine. It did have all the alcohol tables populated from factory though so I was hopeful but it didn't work. I suspect the combination of not originally being flex fuel and being on a 2 bar custom os is why it isn't working. Seems to me there would need to be something, like the IAT Bias table, that says x amount alcohol add x amount from the adder table. Obviously, it can't add the full 3 degree's with 25% alcohol like it could at 80% alcohol...I just can't believe I'm apparently the only one to notice this, I started a thread on HPT but nobody chimes up over there.
Just to clarify, which OS did you start with and do the 2bar upgrade on?
10-10-2014, 11:45 AM
#112
On topic by tangent, switching to blue/green p59 really the only thing that needs to be re-pin is O2 sensors heater. Does anyone have a pic or diagram showing where on the fuse block under the hood the 02 heaters are wired so that I can relocate the wires?
10-13-2014, 08:11 PM
#113
11-03-2014, 08:29 PM
#114
Teching In
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New here but I have been following this thread. I currently have P59 running a twin 70mm DBC iron 408 on E85 backed by a 4L80 in a s10. We are using HPT's custom 3 bar OS in SD. I've mixed and matched segments from multiple tunes to get everything I wanted. This is the 12579405 OS which contains engine segments to run either a DBW or DBC setup. I finally found engine segments under this OS to read the ethanol sensor. The 4l80e segments also have the D1 tables accessed in HPT for the MPH lockout when the shifter is in low for the Jacob's trans brake. I owe a lot of thanks to Bill Henn and all the guys at HPT for answering all my requests for segment swaps and opening up tables. Top notch support for us guys wanting to go fast on stock ECM's.
To me... this was the optimal setup. We have retained 100% of the factory functions of the S10 (including the AC) and even added a few. I'd be more than happy to share the base tune before 3 bar... just PM me.
-Phil
To me... this was the optimal setup. We have retained 100% of the factory functions of the S10 (including the AC) and even added a few. I'd be more than happy to share the base tune before 3 bar... just PM me.
-Phil
11-05-2014, 09:39 AM
#115
11 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Idaho
Posts: 502
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
tweaker47 thanks for posting. That is the exact OS I was looking at when contemplating adding the ethanol sensor to my car. Glad to hear your setup is working well!
LsF-150 I would agree that it probably isn't working because there is some table behind the scenes that isn't populated on that OS. I noticed the 06 flex fuel vehicles use a different OS - 12605114, maybe switching to this OS would solve the problem? However I don't know what HPTuners offers for upgrades on this OS.
LsF-150 I would agree that it probably isn't working because there is some table behind the scenes that isn't populated on that OS. I noticed the 06 flex fuel vehicles use a different OS - 12605114, maybe switching to this OS would solve the problem? However I don't know what HPTuners offers for upgrades on this OS.
01-09-2015, 08:32 PM
#120
I have all everything laying on my bench to add the sensor aside from picking up larger injectors... just need to pick up hptuners 
. I have an 04 CTS-V I think adding the e85 tables should suffice with the base tune I currently am running. Great thread with good info.
. I have an 04 CTS-V I think adding the e85 tables should suffice with the base tune I currently am running. Great thread with good info.