HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I am so fuggin mad right now i cant see straight. A week ago I had a flash fail on me and kill the pcm. Because it wouldve costed me about the same to get the car towed to the stealership and get it reflashed I bought another pcm and had it flashed for my car. So by the time you read that sentence you can pretty much figure out why I am pissed with edit at this point. Now I have a new PCM and the friggin cable that I have is useless because of the VIN Locking these stingy bastards implemented. Here comes the fun part. I just installed a cam this weekend and the **** wont idle for its life and guess who cant tune it? Guess who wont be able to tune it for at least another week or so until they steal my 50.00 and send me back the cable through the mail? Guess who has to deal with a car that wont idle because its my DD? Looks like I got it raw with no lube.........

samz28

hptuners -------->
rules (sorry to rub it in)

how long does ls1edit take to flash? 1-2 minutes? i dont see how it can crash in that time frame the odds would be enormous, and instead of erasing the whole chip at once the software could just erase the blocks that change (no point in erasing a block that isn't changed, that just wears out the flash sooner).

one thing i notice is that hptuners doesnt seem to turn off the ecm completely so the dash goes buck wild on reads (which take forever like 3-4minutes but i didn't have fifo buffering on at all!).

the reason i chose hptuners obviously because i tuned vw's before and love rom emulators. The amount of time to flash upgrade, then test/log, and repeat is important
on DYNO$$$time or street.

You pull over for 30 seconds on the freeway you can flash then start logger and go in maybe 1 minute.

You sit on the freeway for 5 minutes and the HERO/APD police units are pulling up on ya wondering what the problem is etc. (me no likey cops).

So i systematically make a serious of tunes (like 1 through 5), then go run them on the same strip of street/strip, logging/feeling each one out (a4 surging issues originally) then come home. Total time is like 30 minutes to run 5 programs and log them with wot runs to (lets just say 90 for forums sake) and to get some cruise and cruise->stop, idle to cruise(tcc).

I think it would be cool is hptuners made their software work with ls1edit CABLE then you could get a "move on over discount" to support a great sponsor and the best tuning software/scanner available now.

sorry man, just shootin the ****, i'd have to ask carputing to rethink their erase whole ecm strategy, seems retarded since they encrypt the .ls1 bins anyways, its not like you can hex edit or disassemble the rom dumps and reflash them anyways. Of course you can read a rom with hptuners, and load it into ls1edit then flash to the ecu but thats kinda silly.

turbo'd stang

Dave has been nothing but helpful. Ken, OTOH, is a *****.

A buddy of mine if getting ready to buy the HP stuff, so I will decide then if it is better than Edit. It sure sounds it though.

samz28

Well if you want, you can now get permission from both HPTUNER and LS1edit to get a copy of the software from an owner to peruse (as in play with,compare, but i believe you must ask first) . Hptuner is lacking a few tables that ls1edit has, and vice versa. I've flashed 50+ times so far and never had a problem. Even when it was dead cold in the morning and batt volt was 12.1V, hptuners did have to retry a few times (making write time about 1 minute) but it didn't give up or crash or anything. i also didn't turn on FIFO buffering, which i do have on now, and it indeed makes it faster to write/read.

before those settings, it could take 2-10 minutes to read with hptuners, it was crap shoot, but the software was very resilient, and would keep shifting from high to low speed as necessary. laptop was a dell p3-1ghz with native serial port running (bleh) windows Millenium. I haven't tried my win2k laptop yet since i'm lazy.

dlandsvZ28

I got one better.

The tuner took my PCM to a dealer to bench reflash my PCM. At the dealer he said he couldn't get Tech II to read my PCM. So he brings it back and tells me to re-install it in my car and that I will have to drive it to the dealer for a reflash.

I reinstall and car won't start. So then they tell me to tow the car to the dealer. After the tow, the dealer can't reflash the pcm on the car either. The dealer tells me the PCM is fried.

After the tow and dealer's attempt at a reflash my wallet is lighter by $175

Next the tuner installed a new PCM replacing the one they said was bad. But as a result my LS Edit cable couldn't be used to retune the car since the PCM is different. The tuner said he would send my cable to Carputing to be reconfigured for the new PCM.

This was on April 29th. This past week on Wednesday (May 12th) Carputing tells me they still don't have the cable even though the tuner said he had sent it. Carputing said they would contact the tuner for a tracking number.

In addition, the tuner had an attitude when I called and explained that Carputing still hadn't received my cable. His replay was 'he has 75 cars he is working on and can't spend his time worrying about tracking my cable and that I shouldn't worry...Carputing has never lost a cable for him yet'.

On Thursday (May 13th) I sent another email to Carputing asking if they had any tracking information. I sent another on Saturday. No reply on either email yet.

So why did the tuner even try to reflash in the first place? This is the second tuner.

After five attempts by the first tuner I decided to bite the bullet and find someone else to re-tune the car. The first tuner installed the works (h/c package, TQ, JetHots, etc.). After last attempt by first tuner, the car pinged bad and wouldn't lock up in city driving until 51mph (A4 with 224 cam). The scanner showed way too much timing causing the ping. First tuner said he thought I had bad gas...funny huh

While trying to tune the car, the second tuner couldn't get the car to go to open loop at WOT and didn't know how to correct, so be blamed the first tuner thinking the first tuner had messed with tables with Edit. The second tuner's suggestion was to get a reflash and start over. That suggestion was what started the mess I am in now (fried PCM, New PCM, Lost Edit Cable).

So what have I learned from this fiasco?

1) Don't ever get a tune unless the tuner gives you every file (original stock tune and every file thereafter). If they don't want to give you your edit files and still charge $450 for a tune, then find someone else.

2)Buy HP Tuners. I couldnt' because I have a 98 Z28 and after 10 months didn't want to wait any longer.

3) Don't ever give your cable to a tuner and then leave their shop without it.

4) Find someone who knows what the h-- they are doing? IMO there are more that don't than do.

Sorry about long post and it isn't of much help for your situation. But maybe it will help other readers from making the same mistakes I have made.

**************

BTW, I spent 10 grand at first shop, who used to be a sponsor on this forum. Now nearly 10 months later, I'm still dealing with a car that won't run and with more wasted money thrown down a rat hole.

Maybe one of these days after 10 months I'll actually be able to drive my car.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

Damn sorry to hear that. I hope everything works out for you.

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

is it carputings fault your flash failed or was it something you didnt read in the instructions about proper flashing or what to do if there is a problem or did you or did you mess it up yourself?

please explain how its their problem before you complain about them not throwing you freebies.

im sorry it happened man but when you bought it you agreed to all of the circumstances that you are beefing about.

samz28

it sounds like he's flashed the car more than once. Hptuners doesn't have this problem so i'd say its poor coding's fault. But whatcha gonna do but vent. haven't heard of any hptuner folks complaining about roached ecu's

Bink

I know for a FACT HumpinSS knows how to use the program.

He has flashed more than a few times.

Sometimes it takes a business failure before someone wakes up. I know.. I know...Ken Kelly is already rich what does he care! (chorus).

Has anyone taken a look at the LS1Edit list Archives lately???

joel

dlandsvZ28

My beef isn't with Carputing other than the fact that you have to send the cable back to them to be reconfigured which puts your car out of commission at least for a week if you ship one/or two day FEDEX.

Did I know that if I get a new PCM that it has be reconfigured by Carputing? Yes I did, but I didn't expect the tuner or TECH II to disable/hose my PCM, since my PCM and LSEdit cable worked fine before the tuner and the dealer got their hands on it.

IMO, reflashing a PCM shouldn't be any different than reformatting a hardrive that's hosed because of a virus or whatever. The Tech II device should be able to reflash or write to the pcm same as when you install or prepare a harddrive for use in a computer.

Sometime during the first reflash, that information was destroyed disabling the pcm so the Tech II couldn't recognize and/or write to the PCM.

BTW, the tuner hosed two PCMs that day with the Tech II, mine and another. He told me that.

As for me, I've never attempted to hookup LS Edit cable in my car or did I ever attempt to edit my PCM. I purchased the cable from Carputing and took it directly to the second tuner who attempted to tune my car and who started this whole fiasco.

Since my car is down and IMO not my fault, I expected the tuner to send the cable back to Carputing. I didn't ask for a freebie, he volunteered.

But now I learn that it appears the tuner isn't concerned about when my cable gets to Carputing or when it gets back.

Knowing what I know now, I should have sent the cable myself.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

Because edit takes its damn time flashing (Ive flashed over 50 times) my battery got weak and the flash went south. If we had a recovery feature ahem then I wouldve hit the ground running right after the tragedy took place. I have been flashing since early last year so that wasnt the problem.

66ImpalaLT1

Your opinion is wrong about that. Its like flashing a BIOS, and in most cases you can hose your motherboard in the exact same way as hosing your pcm.

Truthfully, your beef should be with GM. They didnt design these pcm's to be recoverable through the OBDII port. HPTuners may be more likely to recover a bad flash, but I doubt they'll guarantee it.

dlandsvZ28

66ImpalaLT1

My quote:

The Tech II device should be able to reflash or write to the pcm same as when you install or prepare a harddrive for use in a computer.

What I should have said is this:

The GM Tech II device and GM PCM should be able to reflashed or written to the same as when you reflash the BIOS in your computer or prepare a harddrive for use in a computer.

So, if the BIOS chip in the PCM isn’t what is called an EEPROM chip, that probably explains why many people who use Edit and loose power, end up hosing their PCM. Same as what the dealer or tuner did to mine when they attempted to reflash it and it got hosed.

Never-the-less, I still don’t think the customer should be left holding the bag if their PCM gets hosed during a reflash. The tuner or dealer IMO should be responsible and why I think I have a legitimate beef.

In addition, the longer it takes to write to the PCM, the greater the risk that you will have either a power failure or read/write error.

The article below explains ROM BIOS and what happens during a power failure.

I’m going to assume that the explanation in the article below in general terms applies to the BIOS chip or something similar in the PCM and that it is a ROM chip and and not an EEPROM chip and why it can't be reflashed sometimes.

In addition, on another thread, Magnus states that if a PCM is hosed that it can be fixed by replacing and soldering in a new chip. I suspect he was referring to the ROM chip. Maybe Magnus will chime in if he reads this.

Below is an explanation of BIOS ROM and EEPROM chips. I suspect the same situation applies if the chip in a PCM gets corrupted during a reflash of the PCM when a power loss occurs or there is a read/write error.

************************************************** ****
The BIOS program in your PC is programmed into a read-only memory (ROM). ROMs are, of course, not rewriteable the way RAM is; that is why they are called "read-only". This presents a problem when you want to update your BIOS. In "the old days" when you wanted to update your BIOS, the manufacturer sent you a new BIOS chip; you opened the box, pulled out the old chip, and put the new one in. Needless to say, this is a pain. Fortunately, technology came to the rescue through the invention of the flash BIOS. Some machines still require the physical upgrade but by using the flash BIOS, most newer machines can upgrade using special software without having to open the case at all.

Machines with flash BIOS capability use a special type of BIOS ROM called an EEPROM; this stands for "Electrically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory". As you can probably tell by the name, this is a ROM that can be erased and re-written using a special program. This procedure is called flashing the BIOS and a BIOS that can do this is called a flash BIOS. The advantages of this capability are obvious; no need to open the case to pull the chip, and much lower cost.

Many motherboards have a special "safety feature" to prevent accidental (or malicious) changes to the flash BIOS--a jumper that must be changed before performing a flash BIOS upgrade. While this is a security feature, it also obviates one of the great advantages of the flash BIOS, namely not having to open the case! Your motherboard manual will tell you whether you have a jumper or not. With the increasing commonality of viruses that can change flash BIOS code, this may soon be a feature on every motherboard.

There is one big disadvantage to using the flash process to upgrade your BIOS. While the BIOS is actually being flashed, it is in a very vulnerable state. If you are really unlucky and something very bad happens in the middle of the upgrade (for example, a power outage), it is possible to end up with a corrupted BIOS chip. You can also end up with a corrupted system if you boot the wrong flash BIOS image into the chip--motherboard manufacturers usually use an unintelligent, universal flash program that will happily program the entirely wrong BIOS image into your system if you tell it to! Fortunately, some manufacturers are now making these programs smarter. For example, Award's flash program checks the name of the image file against the model of motherboard and will complain if there is a mismatch. (Good idea, guys!)

If your system becomes corrupted to the point where it will not boot, you are in a catch-22. Your BIOS is corrupted, so you can't boot the PC, and since you can't boot the PC there's no conventional way to re-flash the BIOS.

****************
And now why the GM Tech II can't read or write to my original hosed PCM.

Team ZR-1

Even GM states when flashing that the Starbus should be disconnected so that the other modules do NOT cause a failure during an upload.
Anyone wanting to assure less of a failure point would do the same thing or do as many of us do and that is "OFF Board" flashing.

The protocol used for all modules on the CAN is simply a modified Ethernet protocol and lost data bits or collisions on the bus is common in a car as on a LAN.

If someone is going to flash their PCM 50 times and out of that only once it failed, well they were lucky but I have flashed well over 200 PCMs, most 2 times each and NOT once wacked the PCM, so its the end user's method of using such a tool that is at question.

As to the time it takes to upload, just because one does it faster does NOT make it better, it could be the slower one does more error checking or allows SOL frames to still travel over the CAN while the other floods the CAN and prevents other modules from sending out their SOL as they must.
GM, nor Delphi ever expected anyone from writing on the flash 50 times esp with a active CAN so blaming the programmer is wrong esp when simple voltage swings or spikes while data is moving across the CAN can cause a incomplete data transfer.

I do agree carputing's methods stinks for if the PCM does get wacked the LS1edit owner should not be forced into the time, money and downtime simply so carputing can change a code in the interface.
In any case vendors selling these tuner products are doing it solely to make a ton of money off of us and at this point neither is giving a decent price but shortly that will change when at least 2 new programmers come out and one is to be 1/2 the price of current ones.

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

Sounds like it wasn't Carputtings fault that your PCM fried.You said the battery died or got too low.I can see it sucks that it happened but it's not right to bash Carputting for this error since they even warn about this.I've downloaded 100's of times without 1 failure.

samz28 - Your good at whoring the HP tuner stuff

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I am well aware that it is my fault. What kills me is there isnt a recovery option to get a bad flash like back. Not only that I have to send them my cable to license the new PCM because the stingy bastards VIN LOCKED THE PROGRAM. That is my gripe. I understand you play you pay but come on they monopolized the market for so long only to keep turning out **** coded in VB (3 yr olds can do that)

WS6 GreeN

Well, from hearing the Edit benefits/problems, and hearing the hptuners benefits/problems, you can almost come to a landslide conclusion. I wish 2 more tuners would come onto the market so I can buy me some tuning software for $300!

McRat

LS1Edit is not a "mature" product. I've used it successfully for a couple of years, about 50 flashes on my PCM. Would I recommend it to beginner? No.

Issues:

It screws up the PCM on "reads". On a Corvette, it sets about 20 error codes, turns off all your instruments, goes into reduced power mode. Disconnect battery for 10 minutes, and all is well.

Sometimes it will "kill" the PCM temporarily after a write. Car will not start. Same thing, disconnect the battery.

I no longer flash at the dragstrip unless there is a trailer available. Only in the driveway.

BUT...

It has helped me run about 1/2 second quicker for $550(?), therefore it's a great value for the money.

Just wish they would make work correctly.

Team ZR-1

The way the CAN protocol works is somewhat like the TCP/IP you use to the internet in that there is Keep Alive frames which in the car are State Of Health frames.
EVERY module in the car must send these over the starbus all the time so that they are known to be functioning.
During data movement such as in tuning and using the VPW protocol what happens is those SOL frames are not seen (timeouts) and thus PCM and BCM thinks those nodes (modules) have a problem so you end up with these false comm (U) DTCs.
Also the IPC (dash) controller sees it cannot reach the PCM so reason gauges go wacko.
Again why GM has the 2 starbus connectors yanked when doing flashes for then the other modules are not on the network leaving the starbus for all the data throughput when flashing.
This is not just a LS1edit issue, I have seen this with even one of the so called better PCM scanners sucking up the bandwidth of starbus and tripping my PCM into reduced engine mode because of the C5's drive by wire (TAC) controller also not being able to talk through the bandwidth being used by the scanner and not allowing the other nodes to use the starbus.