60 lb injector woes, chicken or the egg
09-08-2014, 08:32 PM
#1
60 lb injector woes, chicken or the egg Friend is turbo'ing his 99 SS and just purchased 60# injectors used from a board member. I have Greg Banish injector data and copied over all of the particulars. Setup is a single intank Walbro 350, no FPR, stock rails. On startup the car is dead rich, but seems to idle okay. Verified with an LC2 wideband in the downpipe. I went over the injector data vs. another car I've tuned with the same injectors and had no issues. I tried pulling upwards of 150% from the MAF curve as well as telling the PCM that the injectors are as big as 50% larger and cannot make the car get NEAR 14.X:1 A/F. It constantly stays in the 11's or richer. Verified 4 bar of fuel pressure. Looking for any ideas. Car idled great with my old NA tune in his car with the turbo setup on the car and stock injectors, so the rest of the setup should be sound. So could I be missing something in the tune or could the used injectors be trashed? I also want to rule out the wideband even though its brand new and worked great with the old injectors.
09-09-2014, 02:52 PM
#4
Part number on the injectors is 107961 which if you search the number this is the info that comes up
Features:
Genuine, reliable Siemens Injectors
Excellent response characteristics
Robust Design
High Impedance
Low Impedance performance characteristics with High Impedance Compatibility
Specifications:
Coil Resistance: 12.5 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)
Static Flow Rate @ 43.5PSI ( 300kPa ) w/Gas: 60 lb/hr = 630 cc/min = 453 g/min
Static Flow Rate @ 87PSI ( 600kPa ) w/Gas: 85.7 lb/hr = 900 cc/min = 648 g/min
Gain: 0.11ms/mg
Offset: 0.055ms
Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms
Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa
Connector: Bosch EV1
Series: DEKA 4 ( DEKA IV )
Orifice Type: Multi-orifice
Spray Pattern: 30 Degree Spray Cone
Factory fitted with Viton upper and lower o-rings
Features:
Genuine, reliable Siemens Injectors
Excellent response characteristics
Robust Design
High Impedance
Low Impedance performance characteristics with High Impedance Compatibility
Specifications:
Coil Resistance: 12.5 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)
Static Flow Rate @ 43.5PSI ( 300kPa ) w/Gas: 60 lb/hr = 630 cc/min = 453 g/min
Static Flow Rate @ 87PSI ( 600kPa ) w/Gas: 85.7 lb/hr = 900 cc/min = 648 g/min
Gain: 0.11ms/mg
Offset: 0.055ms
Turn on time @ 14VDC: 1.14ms
Turn off time: 0.85ms @ 600KPa
Connector: Bosch EV1
Series: DEKA 4 ( DEKA IV )
Orifice Type: Multi-orifice
Spray Pattern: 30 Degree Spray Cone
Factory fitted with Viton upper and lower o-rings
09-09-2014, 03:59 PM
#6
Is that the same tune you posted on EFI Live forum? I looked at that tune and noticed a few things. Are you not running a boost reference regulator? Why still 1 bar? Have you tried lowering the injector flow data from what you have in there now? I dont run that high of values for those injectors.
09-09-2014, 04:06 PM
#7
Is that the same tune you posted on EFI Live forum? I looked at that tune and noticed a few things. Are you not running a boost reference regulator? Why still 1 bar? Have you tried lowering the injector flow data from what you have in there now? I dont run that high of values for those injectors.
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09-09-2014, 11:59 PM
#8
You'r correct if you lower it will richen it up. I should have typed more, see #3 below. A few things dont make sense from a tuning point of view, why not use a custom os for boost, its free? If you dont use a custom os at least switch to a 12212156 OS from a 2002 and get rid of the backup ve.
Things I would try:
1) custom os or 2002 OS to start
2) turn off maf completely and see what it does in SD (easy way to rule out maf)
3) double check you injector data, maybe go back to stock and just raise up IFR table as a test ( not correct the way but you could have a modifier table wrong)
4) verify again fuel pressure
Things I would try:
1) custom os or 2002 OS to start
2) turn off maf completely and see what it does in SD (easy way to rule out maf)
3) double check you injector data, maybe go back to stock and just raise up IFR table as a test ( not correct the way but you could have a modifier table wrong)
4) verify again fuel pressure
09-10-2014, 07:46 AM
#9
You'r correct if you lower it will richen it up. I should have typed more, see #3 below. A few things dont make sense from a tuning point of view, why not use a custom os for boost, its free? If you dont use a custom os at least switch to a 12212156 OS from a 2002 and get rid of the backup ve.
Things I would try:
1) custom os or 2002 OS to start
2) turn off maf completely and see what it does in SD (easy way to rule out maf)
3) double check you injector data, maybe go back to stock and just raise up IFR table as a test ( not correct the way but you could have a modifier table wrong)
4) verify again fuel pressure
Things I would try:
1) custom os or 2002 OS to start
2) turn off maf completely and see what it does in SD (easy way to rule out maf)
3) double check you injector data, maybe go back to stock and just raise up IFR table as a test ( not correct the way but you could have a modifier table wrong)
4) verify again fuel pressure
2) I can try it but when I logged maf frequency in the scanner is was right around 2500Hz which seems normal.
3) I will try this along with lowering the min pulsewidth like was recommended over on EFI Live.
4) will do.
Thanks again for the help. If you can help explain how to do the 02 OS I do want to upgrade that at a minimum.
09-10-2014, 03:38 PM
#13
1) as far as the 2002 OS is exactly what I was looking to do, but couldn't find a tutorial. I assume you cannot just take a stock 02 OS and load it right? Do you have to do a complete flash of the OS and calibration instead of just calibration? I guess my point with no using a customs OS is switching to it right now will not solve the super rich issue. If I can resolve that issue then I'm all for switching.
2) I can try it but when I logged maf frequency in the scanner is was right around 2500Hz which seems normal.
3) I will try this along with lowering the min pulsewidth like was recommended over on EFI Live.
4) will do.
Thanks again for the help. If you can help explain how to do the 02 OS I do want to upgrade that at a minimum.
2) I can try it but when I logged maf frequency in the scanner is was right around 2500Hz which seems normal.
3) I will try this along with lowering the min pulsewidth like was recommended over on EFI Live.
4) will do.
Thanks again for the help. If you can help explain how to do the 02 OS I do want to upgrade that at a minimum.
09-13-2014, 02:59 PM
#17
B9021, the min transient pulsewidth was locking me into a pulsewidth too high to get the A/F right. Made NO other changes except lowered that value to .75 so and my A/F immediately went to where it should have. Someone over on EFI Live was nice enough to provide the .cax file for the 99 OS.
