PCM Diagnostics & Tuning HP Tuners | Holley | Diablo
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

NEWS FLASH: US Gov allows tinkering with your car's software

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-27-2015, 05:35 PM
  #1  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
mrvedit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,059
Received 389 Likes on 298 Posts

Default NEWS FLASH: US Gov allows tinkering with your car's software

For anyone in the business of tuning cars, selling tuning software and anyone who wants to keep "tuning" late model cars can rejoice because the US Government granted today a DMCA exemption legalizing vehicle software tinkering.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...are-tinkering/

Without this exemption, it would be illegal to reverse engineering, modify or even examine any automotive computer/software that had any type of encryption or "copy protection", no matter how easily defeated.

While this doesn't apply to our "411" PCMs, it might already apply to late model ECMs, Entertainment systems, etc running on the CAN bus. I've read that manufacturers are planning on encrypting their signals on the CAN bus, if they haven't already.

The auto manufacturers and the EPA fought again the exemption (they wanted it to be illegal to poke around), but the US regulators thought otherwise.

Everyone thinks a big reason for their decision was the VW deceit where the software was explicitly designed to defeat EPA testing.

So, lets all raise a glass to VW for letting us legally tinker with our future cars.
Old 10-27-2015, 07:54 PM
  #2  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (25)
 
2xLS1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Warr Acres, OK
Posts: 5,649
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts

Default

Whoever made that decision is either clueless to what is really going on in the aftermarket, they think everything being done really is really being done for off road use only (which would go along with being clueless), or they know what is going on and is devising a way to catch and fine everyone for what is being done. I'm sure that decision has nothing to do with purposely altering the emissions output of vehicles. Guess I should add a Thanks Obama.
Old 10-27-2015, 10:04 PM
  #3  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (37)
 
01WS6/tamu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: somewhere in TX
Posts: 4,902
Likes: 0
Received 20 Likes on 13 Posts

Default

We are such a small percentage of the overall population of vehicles on the road we don't make a rats *** of difference in grand scheme of things. The greater majority of any vehicle sold never has the oil changed much less hot rodded why they seek to zero in on those of us who do tinker sucks.
Old 11-03-2015, 02:30 PM
  #4  
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
 
CamaroSS22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts

Default

That specifically says for "lawful use" so when you modify the computer to turn off emissions you are still breaking the law. Plus even though the government says it may be legal, I bet if you modify the tune in your car or truck and try and take it in under warranty, you are going to get the high hard one.
Old 11-03-2015, 02:38 PM
  #5  
12 Second Club
 
mshadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by mrvedit
For anyone in the business of tuning cars, selling tuning software and anyone who wants to keep "tuning" late model cars can rejoice because the US Government granted today a DMCA exemption legalizing vehicle software tinkering.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...are-tinkering/

Without this exemption, it would be illegal to reverse engineering, modify or even examine any automotive computer/software that had any type of encryption or "copy protection", no matter how easily defeated.

While this doesn't apply to our "411" PCMs, it might already apply to late model ECMs, Entertainment systems, etc running on the CAN bus. I've read that manufacturers are planning on encrypting their signals on the CAN bus, if they haven't already.

The auto manufacturers and the EPA fought again the exemption (they wanted it to be illegal to poke around), but the US regulators thought otherwise.

Everyone thinks a big reason for their decision was the VW deceit where the software was explicitly designed to defeat EPA testing.

So, lets all raise a glass to VW for letting us legally tinker with our future cars.
Why do you think it doesn't apply to 411 PCMs?

Also CAN bus encryption is down the line right now auto makers are just working on filtering CAN bus packets from sources similar to the way a firewall would work.
Old 11-03-2015, 07:15 PM
  #6  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
mrvedit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 7,059
Received 389 Likes on 298 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by mshadow
Why do you think it doesn't apply to 411 PCMs?

Also CAN bus encryption is down the line right now auto makers are just working on filtering CAN bus packets from sources similar to the way a firewall would work.
I haven't heard of GM, Ford or Chysler issuing DMCA complaints to e.g. HP Tuners or EFI Live.

Just for additional background to those who don't know much about DMCA, it was a law signed around 1998 due to lobbying by the music and film industries to protect them from on-line pirating via illegal download, e.g. Napster.
Somehow, other industries then decided to use the law for their own protection; a major example being cell phone carriers claiming that the "unlocking" your phone is illegal under DMCA. Then others claimed that reverse engineering their software was illegal under DMCA.
Each year (?) the Library of Congress can issue exceptions to the DMCA and this year they made automotive software an exception. Congress can also pass exceptions and last year it allowed for unlocking cell phones.
In short, this crappy law goes back to the late '90s fight between the music industry and Napster.
Old 11-05-2015, 08:40 AM
  #7  
TECH Senior Member
 
joecar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: So.Cal.
Posts: 6,077
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 9 Posts

Default

This is a can of worms... there are multiple levels of ulterior motives ensnarling all of this.
Old 11-05-2015, 10:37 AM
  #8  
TECH Senior Member
 
joecar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: So.Cal.
Posts: 6,077
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 9 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 2xLS1
Whoever made that decision is either clueless to what is really going on in the aftermarket, they think everything being done really is really being done for off road use only (which would go along with being clueless), or they know what is going on and is devising a way to catch and fine everyone for what is being done. I'm sure that decision has nothing to do with purposely altering the emissions output of vehicles. Guess I should add a Thanks Obama.
Yes, I agree, it's a not-so-subtle trap.
Old 11-05-2015, 11:31 AM
  #9  
12 Second Club
 
mshadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Buffalo NY
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by mrvedit
I haven't heard of GM, Ford or Chysler issuing DMCA complaints to e.g. HP Tuners or EFI Live.
They were pushing in this direction this DMCA change actually prevented it.



Quick Reply: NEWS FLASH: US Gov allows tinkering with your car's software



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:57 PM.