P0101 code and damaged 4l60e tranny
02-04-2016, 01:22 PM
#1
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P0101 code and damaged 4l60e tranny I had my 4l60e tranny allegedly rebuilt in 2013. It had issues with the o2 sensors which were replaced after I go the car back. 4200 miles later the same problem, car slips and stalls in third and fourth.
These clowns tell me that the code shown caused the tranny to fail. The it was the K&N filter which I did not oil, it was air flow. Any insight? I never heard of a fault like this or the MAF causing a tranny failure let alone in 4200 miles of highway driving.
These clowns tell me that the code shown caused the tranny to fail. The it was the K&N filter which I did not oil, it was air flow. Any insight? I never heard of a fault like this or the MAF causing a tranny failure let alone in 4200 miles of highway driving.
02-04-2016, 03:28 PM
#2
I find it hard to believe the MAF problem could cause transmission failure. Unless you have a warranty from the shop that did the build, doubtful, then I'd consider it water under the bridge and find a reputable shop to repair the trans again. If you drive it hard, then get a performance shop involved so that you know the trans is built to take some beating and that it will last. PerformaBuilt has a one year warranty for their built transmission and there is no core charge. Buy from them with confidence and have a local shop do the installation. You can do the install yourself if you have the time, tools, place to work and inclination.
02-05-2016, 08:46 PM
#3
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+1 ^
Perhaps a completely screwed up MAF could indicate much lower load/throttle than there really is and the PCM then command lower transmission line pressure than it should, but I kinda doubt it. For one thing, the TPS and MAP also show the load and when they disagree significantly with the MAF, the PCM ignores the MAF and throws the P101 code.
As we discuss in the Transmission section, many trans shops take shortcuts in rebuilding the finicky 4L60E, resulting in leaks in the 3/4 clutch circuit, resulting in a prematurely burnt clutch. I would wager that is what happened here.
As mentioned, a quality built performance 4L60E won't have those leaks and will have higher line pressure across the board to further reduce slippage.
Besides PerformaBuilt (in Pennsylvania), other sponsors are FinishLine Transmission (near Chicago) and RPM (in Indiana).
Perhaps a completely screwed up MAF could indicate much lower load/throttle than there really is and the PCM then command lower transmission line pressure than it should, but I kinda doubt it. For one thing, the TPS and MAP also show the load and when they disagree significantly with the MAF, the PCM ignores the MAF and throws the P101 code.
As we discuss in the Transmission section, many trans shops take shortcuts in rebuilding the finicky 4L60E, resulting in leaks in the 3/4 clutch circuit, resulting in a prematurely burnt clutch. I would wager that is what happened here.
As mentioned, a quality built performance 4L60E won't have those leaks and will have higher line pressure across the board to further reduce slippage.
Besides PerformaBuilt (in Pennsylvania), other sponsors are FinishLine Transmission (near Chicago) and RPM (in Indiana).
02-06-2016, 01:41 PM
#5
A dirty of failing MAF can indeed cause load to be miss calculated and cause low line pressure and trans failure. In addition I have has customers even have a badly out of synch Maf to TPS to cause quick shifts from 1 to 4th under wot only. Not saying this is the case here but in fact it can and does happen seen in a few times over the years.
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02-09-2016, 01:13 PM
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2004 corvette and no it is not raced. I enjoy driving it but at my age going full out might be a bad idea.
Did not know about the complaints to the state about them until after the fact. They tried blaming it on the MAF hence the P0101 code but they never showed me parts they used to "rebuild or recondition" the tranny with. Their story has changed quite a few times over the course of this. We have gone to the MAF causing it, to "the car came with a 4L60e and not a 4L65e" which is what I thought they put into the car with the replacement and which is what they marked it as. We discovered they submitted a fraudulent document as well and it was easily proven. The O2 sensors had been replaced and the secondary air injector as well prior to tranny failure the second time. I had a new shop rebuild the tranny to 4L65e specs. What I found of interest about this code is that I have removed the blockage caused by the running lites to allow more air into the engine. I live at almost sea level but it I go to a mountain area the check engine light and codes disappear.
02-12-2016, 10:19 AM
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I spoke with the transmission specialist at the local chevy dealership and he has never seen a tranny fail once let alone twice because of a MAF issue. He did tell me that there could have been sub par parts used or they had a tranny laying around and used it.
He also brought up the tranny cooler and the pressure in it. He told me that transmission repair 101 says to test the pressure before removing a transmission. That he said could have caused both failures if the pressure was to low. He also confirmed what had been posted by someone else which was the MAF readings would be overridden and the default settings used if there were a conflict.
He also brought up the tranny cooler and the pressure in it. He told me that transmission repair 101 says to test the pressure before removing a transmission. That he said could have caused both failures if the pressure was to low. He also confirmed what had been posted by someone else which was the MAF readings would be overridden and the default settings used if there were a conflict.
02-12-2016, 11:22 AM
#12
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While a failing/bad MAF could shorten the life of a trans, it is unlikely to kill a properly built trans within a few thousand miles. The most likely problem was a poor rebuild which skipped the time-consuming steps to ensure there is no leaking in the critical 3/4 clutch circuit.
Here are some recent threads from the Transmission section, including informative posts from sponsor PerformaBuilt:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...2-3-shift.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...built-60e.html
Unfortunately, crappy rebuilds that soon fail is very common.
Here are some recent threads from the Transmission section, including informative posts from sponsor PerformaBuilt:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...2-3-shift.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...built-60e.html
Unfortunately, crappy rebuilds that soon fail is very common.
02-12-2016, 11:25 AM
#13
TECH Senior Member
If MAF fails such that it causes the PCM to throw a DTC, then PCM will command maximum line pressure according to which DTC's are in the trans fault max line pressure table.
If MAF under-reports the airflow g/s, then PCM is going to calculate lower engine torque which then causes PCM to command lower line pressure, which will cause slippage.
So it depends on how the MAF fails.
And measuring pressure at the line tap on the side of the case is not sufficient... if the 3/4 clutch circuit leaks internally then the 3/4 clutch will slip and destroy itself regardless of line pressure...
( but do measure line pressure, because if it's low it points to other problems )
And some external coolers may restrict fluid flow returning to transmission, this reduces lube to the rear gearset causing it to overheat (turns blue)... but generally most name-brand coolers are good and do not restrict flow; also fluid flow rate from cooler feed circuit (i.e to the cooler) should be measured, it it's too low it points to pump and/converter problems.
EDIT: see what mrvedit said, he beat me to it.
If MAF under-reports the airflow g/s, then PCM is going to calculate lower engine torque which then causes PCM to command lower line pressure, which will cause slippage.
So it depends on how the MAF fails.
And measuring pressure at the line tap on the side of the case is not sufficient... if the 3/4 clutch circuit leaks internally then the 3/4 clutch will slip and destroy itself regardless of line pressure...
( but do measure line pressure, because if it's low it points to other problems )
And some external coolers may restrict fluid flow returning to transmission, this reduces lube to the rear gearset causing it to overheat (turns blue)... but generally most name-brand coolers are good and do not restrict flow; also fluid flow rate from cooler feed circuit (i.e to the cooler) should be measured, it it's too low it points to pump and/converter problems.
EDIT: see what mrvedit said, he beat me to it.
Last edited by joecar; 02-12-2016 at 11:31 AM.
02-12-2016, 05:55 PM
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Well I had a good look at what they have been sending to the DOJ in my home state as I filed a complaint with them for fraud.
Last document they sent was a complete fabrication claiming we had put 20000 miles on the car (4200 confirmed miles in reality), that they could tell the tranny model by looking at it and that the pressure was fine in the hoses. Either they did not rebuild/recondition it or they put used parts in it is my best guess at this point.
Last document they sent was a complete fabrication claiming we had put 20000 miles on the car (4200 confirmed miles in reality), that they could tell the tranny model by looking at it and that the pressure was fine in the hoses. Either they did not rebuild/recondition it or they put used parts in it is my best guess at this point.
02-13-2016, 09:10 AM
#15
So my statement above about that DTC causing the trans to revert to full line pressure was correct.
I also have an auto trans C5 Corvette.
It would be interesting to read the tune in the car and see if the transmission parameters have been changed from stock.
Unless you bought the car new, who knows what was messed with in the past.
When I put the performabuilt level 2 in my car, they said "don't mess with shift pressures, our shift kit takes care of that for you".
Trans has been flawless btw.
I believe the main diff between the 60 and 65 are the planetaries. 5 pinion in the 4L65.
I'm in Portland BTW.
And an old guy too. A fast old guy....
:-)
Ron
I also have an auto trans C5 Corvette.
It would be interesting to read the tune in the car and see if the transmission parameters have been changed from stock.
Unless you bought the car new, who knows what was messed with in the past.
When I put the performabuilt level 2 in my car, they said "don't mess with shift pressures, our shift kit takes care of that for you".
Trans has been flawless btw.
I believe the main diff between the 60 and 65 are the planetaries. 5 pinion in the 4L65.
I'm in Portland BTW.
And an old guy too. A fast old guy....
:-)
Ron
Last edited by RonSSNova; 02-13-2016 at 09:20 AM.
02-14-2016, 09:00 PM
#18
Again it depends on the vehicle and OS. Not all calibrations have those switches set to enable. You can look in the Trans Diag Tab with HP Tuners if it is set that way. Many are but not all. Look at a 01 or 02 F-body A4 calibration for just a couple examples that are not enabled.
02-14-2016, 11:03 PM
#19
Again it depends on the vehicle and OS. Not all calibrations have those switches set to enable. You can look in the Trans Diag Tab with HP Tuners if it is set that way. Many are but not all. Look at a 01 or 02 F-body A4 calibration for just a couple examples that are not enabled.
Correct?
Perhaps this is the difference?
02-14-2016, 11:33 PM
#20
There is just as much a mix of Vettes that either have it enabled or disabled as F-bodies. I don't know the reasoning the GM Calibration Engineers used in deciding how to set it. I'm just trying to correct the statement that max line pressure always happens with MAF DTCs. It may not.
