BooneSS13

Last year I purchased my h/c and email tune package from Livernois mainly because the previous owner that owned my vehicle which is a 2013 Camaro had previously had it dyno tuned by Livernois. I was told by Livernois that because the tune was done by them the ECU is locked and I would have to buy their tuning software to unlock it since I live out of state So I if you buy a car tuned by them and you live far from them like me be prepared to fork over 600$ for their software!

So anyway, just went ahead and purchased a whole package since they told me the xtreme-Cal software enables me to data log tune with them. When it came time for me to need to data log since I forged my bottom end and stayed with the stock c.i. They told me they no longer offer that sservice because they don't sell x-treme-cal anymore

#2 they sent me the wrong length pushrods. They actually sent me pushrods that were 2 different sizes! Eleven 7.425 pushrods and six 7.400! They assured me that my car would need 7.425" pushrods which after measuring myself which I should've done in the first place I found out I actually needed 7.385" pushrods.

#3 They forgot my cam bolts! Since they didn't overnight them I just had my engine builder buy them himself and had them give me a credit

#4 They didn't even send my tuning software! I call and ask about it after going through all the parts I ordered and THEN they tell me they're out of stock and I will have to wait another week to get it in or I could pay $100 more for their handheld device

After all of this I finally complain about it and they did nothing to fix it! They offered me a credit for the pushrods that I had to buy and and have overnight shipped by summit but did not reimburse shipping. After my engine failed which was an unknown cause I had them repair my heads which they told me would only be a "couple hundred bucks" and next thing I know I drop them off and I get a bill for around $400.

I really get the feeling that Livernois Motorsports has let their attitude get so arrogant due to all the fame they've gotten over the past decade or so that if you're not doing a huge high $$$ build they can care less about your business. They acted like I was just small potatoes and through the whole ordeal I didn't feel the least bit of sympathy from Livernois Motorsports for they're mistakes

I will no longer be doing business with Livernois!

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Man I'm really sorry to hear this. My buddy works for Livernois. I'll have to see what he says. I'm surprised they lock their tunes. That alone would make me stay clear

BooneSS13

Yeah I'll never do business with a tuner that locks tunes ever again. Im sure they'll be on here soon to be give they're famous "we don't lock tunes, we use OEM development level software that's soo advanced no one else can access it" line

Jason Barna is the worst. He actually told me that since they sent me my stock file (which took an hour of pulling teeth to get them to do) that my services have ended with them and they won't make any tune adjustments to my car! The only reason I was going to have them do tuning adjustments is I figured since I already payed for all of this software I might as well have them do it rather than spend another $500 and drive 2 hours to have someone else tune it. The only thing that I changed this year is my cold air intake rods and pistons. Compression went from 10.7:1 to 10.74:1. Same stock cubic inch.

BooneSS13

Should've known not to trust any company that spams with fake reviews

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forum.../252514?page=1

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

It's unfortunate to see so many untrue items in this thread. I will start with the bottom and work my way up.

In regards to fake reviews, I don't see how that can be labeled as fake, he's in a different state, and made a thread on multiple boards, but how does that make it fake? We have had customers do very enthusiastic posts before, that doesn't make it fake, that attests to how happy they were.

As often with your posts, you are not giving the full story. What you didn't tell people is that you changed the combo on your build switching to an intake we don't support, and had another shop build your engine to specs that we cannot verify. Because of this, we told you we couldn't tune a combination we have never seen, but are now being lambasted for honesty, rather than stringing you along like everyone else that has worked with you has. but somehow, we are the bad guys.

Also, again, our tunes are NOT locked. We do use proprietary software, yes it changes things at a deeper level than 3rd party suites, yes it makes it so it must be returned to stock before someone else can tune it, but it does NOT lock it. Locking is something people do to keep cars hostage, we aren't doing that, which is exactly why we instructed you how to return it to stock. No one forced you to move to a combo we can't support. You chose to go down a path that we couldn't help with.

As for your original post, I will submit this link as it can give more info than can/should be reposted here. Again, you are not giving the full story, just like in this thread

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...ight=livernois

We tried numerous times to help you, but some people just can't accept certain things, and we are ok with that. But You continue to try to bully us into doing something that we cannot put our seal of approval on, and then still call us asking for favors to help you in all kinds of different scenarios. You have slandered us multiple times, yet want us to help? We are grown ups here, so if it were something we could put our seal of approval on, of course we would, but I can tell you, this kind of tactic is not going to make us change our stance on proper vs. acceptable. You discuss our reputation, and I can assure you, our reputation for quality is based on taking a firm stance on guiding customers down paths that we can support, and declining work that we know will result negatively. This is why so often people might not contact us the first time for modifications, but when they have seen the error of their ways, we are at the top of their list so they do it properly this time.

BooneSS13

Okay Jason I'm not going to go back and forth with you on here, I'm too mature for that, so I'm going to make this straight forward and to the point.

For starters I don't think anyone in their right mind will believe that is a "real" review, but I'll let the viewers of this thread make their own determination on that.

Is it not true that the first thing you told me when I called and asked about the data logging service that I was promised AFTER I finally got you guy's to send me the stock file to my car was,"Since we sent you the stock file for your car your services with us has been ended"

Are you saying that it isn't true that when I asked Anthony the person responsible for the email tuning about the intake that he didn't say "That intake shouldn't change anything"

You also asked me (after we argued about that bologna response from you about ending my services) about the specs on the engine. I told you the only thing that has changed was the compression went from 10.7:1 to 10.74:1. And you said that shouldn't be enough to change much of anything. I then asked you if we can we data log to make sure everything is still
correct. And this is how that cconversation went..

Jason: Do you see that particular tuning software that you purchased on our website anymore?

Me: No....

Jason: okay that means we no longer support data logging because we don't sell your software anymore.

Me: well you guys promised me that I could data log before I purchased your software. You guys still have to honor your end of the agreement.

Jason: sorry man there's nothing we can do for you we don't support that software anymore. You have 2 options either wait until September and pay for a dyno tune, or go to a local tuner.

BooneSS13

And then the whole thing you told me about the" ownership team" was a complete lie. You told me someone will call me from the Livernois motorsports "ownership team" to sort everything out. You claimed that I would receive a call at around 10:30. We also made it clear that I'm an hour behind in my time zone and you said "okay 10:30 tomorrow it is".

I check my phone the next day after I freed my schedule at that time. No voice-mail or anything and I have a missed call around 9 o'clock! I called back around 10am the same day when I was available and your response was "I'm sorry you missed your opportunity to speak with them at the scheduled time" and I was given no option to speak to "them" again. (that is if they even exist)

You guys are such liars it's not even funny, and you're not even good at it. That's the said part. And it's a shame that they use their parts counter guy (Jason Barna) to dish out all of their dirty work for them. I have asked to speak with management multiple times with no response from voicemails. Terrible business etiquette

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

First of all, this isn't Jason. However, I know every aspect of the situation, including your interactions and threats of physical activity towards employees at our facility.

Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean a single thing. I can tell you, with a name that's been around for 67 years, we aren't going to stoop to that kind of action. If you think we need fake reviews to talk about our products, you are quite mistaken. You posted as if it was fact, when it was really your opinion, which is pretty much text book slander.

You can absolutely datalog with our software, what that doesn't guarantee is that we will support unknown and unproven modifications. The datalogging was designed to help diagnose things with our proven packages, not to create a "cure all" for every possible build. We sold you tuning for our package, not someone elses. Something that was sold at a discount, so please, stop telling people you paid $600 for something you paid less than $400 for. It just confirms that you change facts to fit your argument.

Since you mentioned anthony, let me show you what your conversation was:

But that isn't the only thing that changed unfortunately, and even so, it's someone else's engine. Based on your past experience with shoddy build work costing you an engine, and you going against many of our suggestions throughout the entire process we gave you the best advice possible. Take it somewhere and have it dyno tuned. Where is your thread bashing the people that put the engine together wrong that forced the rebuild?

What I can tell you is we moved on to a different device platform as what we support no longer necessitates datalogging. But, again, this is completely ignoring the fact that the car is no longer our combination, we cannot be involved in something we don't have faith in.

And you can, it will datalog, that's not a problem. but we do not support builds that are not our own, the only exception is complete carbon copies of our in house builds. You can find that on every forum we post on. We have zero desire to be everything to everyone, which means that, yes, people can outgrow our remote tuning services when they deviate down non recommended or supported paths.

We support the software, but we don't support your combo. there is a very important difference between the 2.

You were called multiple times at the time discussed, but again, you had openly slandered us, threatened us physically, and many other things. This is a situation that your choices and actions have created, and we have done far more than any other company would ever do to try to help you, but there is a point where you have to realize that there is no way to help a customer any longer and you let them know that your services can no longer meet their needs.

No one here is lying. We have documented your lies numerous times in numerous posts on numerous boards. again, we did things no other company would ever do for a customer, yet you are talking about the bad we did, yet those who actually wronged you in a meaningful way aren't even mentioned.

BooneSS13

This is going to be my last reply. This isn't an argument thread, I came here to simply post my experience with you and my review. The fact that you're arguing with me over a forum back and forth as a business just proves the downhill slide of your grounds are company's professionalism. Rather calling me or emailing me to discuss why I've posted negative feedback you'd rather argue over a forum? Not professional AT ALL!

It's amazing how a company that lies and twists the story the way you guy's do stay in business. When did EVER threaten anyone? I never even said a curse word to any of you guy's. You guy's are using that lie just as a cop out to dismiss me as a customer. Jason said the same false statement, and when asked to quote what threat I made, guess what? He had NOTHING to say. Because I ever made any threats.

If the compression from the pistons, rods and cold air intake (which you said wouldn't make a difference) wasn't the only thing that changed Livernois, what else did? Please tell me. Or is this another lie?

I was called multiple times. Really??? Maybe I ought to post my call log on here from that day. That is a complete 100% lie!

Bottom line what this comes down to is you guys are salty because I didn't spend the $5,000 that you quoted me to have my short block rebuilt. When I bought your stage 3 heads, bought your complete cam package down to even the Rocker arm bases and the tune, I was promised that as long as it was N/A with me being out of state you could data log and tune future modifications. That was the whole purpose of me buying the xtreme cal instead of the handheld.

First you say you don't support my device anymore and that's why I can't datalog, then you say I could? Which one is it livernois? Get your story straight!

Anyway the few dollars you might have saved with me I'm sure you lost with the poor reviews. Even if it's just 1 or 2 customers out of the hundreds that's seen these. Which is well deserved.

This is a company that doesn't care about the little guys, meaning the 9-5 working class customers. Now a days if your not calling them up ready to spend 10k plus on a build with them, your business is not appreciated! And you won't find that out until AFTER they get you money.

Have a Very Blessed Day

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

The problem is, we have called, we have talked to you, we have taken care of you in numerous ways, but every time it's a new story, a new complaint, or a spin on an old one that was already addressed.

If this were time #1, 2, 5, heck, maybe even 10 that we were talking, we would be handling things a certain way, but you are repeatedly attacking us without reason. We have posted emails clearly stating Anthony, who you claim told you it was fine, clearly told you it wasn't something we couldn't tune for after clearly stating he needed to speak with the calibrator. Yet you continue to claim we said it would make no difference. The email chain doesn't lie.

Unfortunately, almost all of your claims are untrue. We leave good enough alone and take the high road 95+% of the time, but when someone repeatedly attempts to badmouth us, and paint false pictures about how we operate, what are we supposed to do? make phone call #30? what is that going to change that calls 1-29 didn't? So, yes, we are going to defend ourselves, just like we should. We admit our mistakes when we make them. If you look at that thread that I linked, we admitted mistakes, and we did our best to take care of them (I mean, refunding used parts that have been in a failed engine, really, who does that?) but you are making false claims against us, and have been for months.

We would be more than happy to post phone logs, just as we have repeatedly posted proof that disproves your claims. And when we do that, you change your story. It's tired, this isn't the first forum that you have done this on, and it's quite silly that when one forum tries to tell you that we didn't do anything wrong, you jump to another to try again.

You weren't priced out a $5000 stock displacement engine, it was a stroker using an all new block, heck we could have even done one using your block for even less, it is attached to show this fact. So please, stop twisting things. We keep exacting details of interactions, quotes, and sales, which is how we have been able to post these facts.

Trust me, no one is as disappointed as us at all of this, but we are not going to let someone run an unfounded smear campaign unchecked. Clearly you have made it clear you have an agenda, which is why you slandered us before we ever even started talking about tuning or not tuning the car with the current mods. You claimed 4 months ago you were done with us and we were akin to Satan, but then begged us to help you less than a month ago. So which is it? On the surface, it sure looks like someone looking for ammunition for a battle that doesn't exist.

taz68camaro

Wow!!

BooneSS13

Wow is right! I can't believe they're still going on about this.

I made my point. We we both know the truth

rpturbo

iTrader: (47)

Yeah Wow. I guess they only use canned tunes anyway if they can't support a intake. I thought Livernois was better than that. I stay open minded about most situations like this, but when the company themselves says it, well then it is what it is.

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

We support many intakes, but what we aren't going to do is support everything under the sun. So, instead of doing what most people do, which is doing everything to an acceptable level, we do select things properly. All of our tuning is custom tuning, but it's on our packages we offer, so we know exactly how everything plays together. This isn't a supported intake, and we aren't going to support a modification we have never seen. Developing an entire MAF curve isn't something that you are going to do with remote datalogs, at least not effectively, and it's not a service we offer remotely. Do we do it in person? absolutely, but that's because we can control all aspects of it then.

BooneSS13

I apologize for that had to double check our emails. I was off by $100

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

but that includes crating, shipping inbound and outbound, and other aspects, the engine itself was not that much money.

BooneSS13

Not true. I told Jason before I got the quote I would drive it up there. I come up to Michigan all the time since I'm from there

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

I can tell you what I am looking at, there is nearly $300 in freight and freight related costs as I have access to the itemized cost break down.

edit: also, that would mean then tax would need to be on it too then, so he likely was trying to save you money vs. tax and fuel and time

SLOW SEDAN

iTrader: (13)

I agree with the OP! Dealing with Livernois was the most frustrating thing I've dealt with in my 20 years of modifying cars. While they do decent mechanical work in house they absolutely suck at tuning and I found they will lie to cover their ***. Every other performance shop I've dealt with has been a better experience. All I can do now is keep people from using Livernois, which I'm glad to say I've saved more then a few people from going that route in my area.

LivernoisMotorsports

iTrader: (1)

You know quite well that there were many lies that were told to us, and about us. If memory serves, throughout the entire build we were told your car was a race car, put the nastiest cam in you can, I don't care about drivibility. Yet, when you got the car all of your posts were about how it's a daily driver and your wife uses it. Unfortunately being we never saw the car again, there was only so much we could do. But, 8 years ago vs. now is not even remotely a current picture of what our knowledge and capabilities are.

I am sorry, but we don't lie, in fact we go out of our way to be honest, often too honest about things. Things like this are why we keep such records.

We have no delusions here, we know that we can't please everyone, but there are thousands, upon thousands of success stories compared to a few that we couldn't appease. That doesn't stop us from trying, but we also have to be realistic. are there times that it's 100% on us? absolutely, and we own up to that when it does happen, any company that says anything other than this isn't being honest, but we also need to inform people when that isn't the case.