Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

Chris,
If I wanted to make the sheet look like live had more options then HPT, then I would have omitted the itmes that HPT has that live does not. In my post I said two times that if there is anything ANYONE wanted to add or have changed, then I would glady do so. I did not make it to make one look better then the other as that was not my intention. If you would like to offer up some suggestions of items that I missed, PLEASE let me know and I will gladly revise the sheet. All I am trying to do here is what happened anyway. Why can't there ever be a HPTvsLive thread that doesn't result into a pissing contest or get locked? I made a post but it got deleted that had huge letters and stated PLEASE DO NOT GET THIS THREAD LOCKED, but it was removed. If you have noticed I have stayed out of these types of threads lately due to it resulting like this one. It is know which program I personally feel is more suited for me. All I am trying to do is help educated people of the differences between one product to the next as our opinions of each product aren't allowed here to an extent.

There are things I don't like about Live that HPT has, and vice versa. Why is it hard to have a civil adult conversation about the benifits of one over the other.

If there is anything you would like to discuss, like mentioned before, please send me a PM. I'll gladly have a conversation outside of the thread so it doesn't get locked/closed.

gameover

I don't want to waste any more of your time or mine by beginning a journey to a place that, in my opinion, doesn't exist. This is my last reply to this thread as i don't think i can add anything further of value or interest to people considering which product to buy.

Chris..

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I have updated the comparison to include vehicle types.

HPT vs. EFI Live Comparison

TAQuickness

iTrader: (28)

The links aren't working for me Black

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

Dunno, they are working on my end...

Bill Bowling

iTrader: (6)

Link does not work for me either.

Bill

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

Really? I just clicked on it again and is fine. Its not on my personal computer so I know its not on my end. Right click save as maybe?

Black02SS

iTrader: (36)

I have made another link that should work as well. I have also updated the doc to include more items.

Link1

Link2

gameover

just to correct the info you have in relation to 2.0:

- custom pids = yes
- not sure what you mean by link between scanner and data but we can aplly histograms to editor data and also automatically create histograms (with correct axis labelling) from the editor tables.
- semi customizable guages doesn't rate on anyone not sure why it is there
- we get a red yes for full reflash?
- we support every LS1 from 97-06 (except very, very early 97's)
- also support every single OS for 2bar and 1bar SD (no need to upgrade or anything, just click the button).
- have LS2 in pre-production release
- start 4cyl beta very soon
- our EIO has 2 outputs as well as 4 inputs
- have a lower cost non-EIO option
- have USB in pre-production testing (with LS2, LS1, V6)
- since you are listing custom OS stuff, we have Boost Enrichment (2/3 bar SD) and also TPS modifier (1bar SD)
- all our enhancements have dual spark map support for SD and where relevant loses the secondary VE
- as of Apr 15th 2005 software updates became free

this just corrects the short list you have. I hope you can see why our list or others lists might be different and obviously emphasize features that we believe are important and also we know are differentiators of our products. I am sticking to your list as this is what i think you are defining as "important to you" and not necessarily important to others or tunershops (eg. i have never, ever seen a tunershop use the dashboard display or care about if they can load custom images, in fact many ask how to turn that stuff off!!). Also, keep in mind that our company goals and directions may not necessarily be the same as other companies as we already support V6, LS2 and have announced 4 cyl development etc.

Over and out.

Chris...

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I dont see a problem with his spreadsheet all of the information is factual about the features each product has and doesnt have. Is itour fault Live's colum is a little greener than the HPT colum. Is it my fault we have had custom pids since v6 that have carried over into V7, custom histgrams since V5 (Welcome to 2000-01). Is it my fault EFILive allows you to get rid of excel, filter data and hide cells counts where 1.7 doesnt offer this and in beta 2.0.5 its still broke or halfway working.

These threads go to **** because most of the times someone comes along and posts about this great feature HPT has and what not then the EFILive crew makes it well aware the features are currently available TODAY. If you dont beleive that dload the demo and look for yourself. With all the whining being done and all the misinformation you claim I wouldve added to the list of features in HPT's defense, instead you cry foul and offer no information to back up your claims

gameover

i just corrected the items listed, nothing more. and yet another twist to the argument and throw in some name calling to ensure you and the "crew" stay on top...

are you really trying to convince anyone of anything or just beating your chest to show efilive what a great soldier you are?

foff667

iTrader: (2)

Have you used hpt 2.0? I will admit efi lives scanning programs have been very good for a very long time...considering they've been around for 10 years I'd hope they'd be able to keep a leg up on the rest of the scanners out there...again I reiterate 2.0 will close a huge gap...as far as the gauge display who cares? The only ones the use the gauge display on a regular basis are conversion people...& imo they will be happy with the changes to the gauge display in 2.0. I havent used the gauge display in nearly a year. As far as maps tuners has 8 & will be configurable as well...data filtering as well.

hptuners was out before efi lives tuning tool...ls1edit was their main competetor & did/still does charge for 6 months of updates, hptuners was/is just keeping up with the times.

he asked for pro's cons of each, I stated what I know & have seen in both...obviously you have something against the guys at hpt and maybe should keep your bashing to pm's with those guys.

Super Sport X2

Actually I do have a problem with that spreadsheet and your comments.
We have a dedicated thread for feature requests.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/YaBB.p...msuitefeatures

90% of the wonderful things you are touting have either:

1) Not been asked for by our users.
2) Have only been asked for by only 2-3 users.
3) Have been asked for by users and others replied with no thanks.

So either get busy requesting, or don't complain if it never shows up.

Humpinss, Black02SS, nobody asked for your comments on 2.0 or any variant of it.
Neither of you are beta testers, nor have you seen the full capabilities of 2.0
It was released early in pre beta to allow some of our customers the ability to tune/scan the LS2 ECM and TCM. Which is a lot more than I can say for the other guys.

With that said, if you guys think we are busy fretting over minor features that nobody is asking for then you are in a world of hurt. We are busy adding new things like additional model support. Maybe you guys are stuck in the LS1 only world, but a lot of our individual and tunershop customers are busy getting geared up for next years models......

You guys don't buy new cars??


Ken

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

You list undockable dashboard maps as a comparison? What is that? Can you make an item any more EFI Live biased?

Here's a few for you guys.. Put these in the comparison:

Editor:
True MDI View. HP Tuners allows you to move any window anywhere you like in th parent VCM Editor window. EFI Live locks your navigator window to the left.
Ability to toggle units with the right click of the mouse on any parameter.
Ability to change precision with the right click of the mouse on any parameter.
A DTC list that is all inclusive. EFI Lives DTC list is seperated between 2 seperate lists.
The ability to compare ANY files, regardless of OS. EFI Live only lets you compare files with the same OS.
A much more modern look than EFI Lives software.
Useable task bars that are easy to use for new users.
The ability to view the table, 2d or 3d graphs alone, or split in any table display.
The ability to undock table displays for dual monitor systems.
History logs in tree format, Not generic TEXT lists like EFI Live.
Change logs in tree format, Not generic TEXT lists like EFI Live.
Compare logs in tree format, Not generic TEXT lists like EFI Live.
Ability to recommend history logs for old files as well as delete old entries.
Ability to right click buttons in the editor for copy/paste/import without having to open up the tables.
Ability to right click any parameter in the editor for a 1 click undo.
Graphical color display to show differences, changes and such for main view as well as file comparison view. EFI Live doesn't have this as they can only compare files of the same OS.

Scanner:
True MDI View. HP Tuners allows you to move and have open any window in the scanner. Arrange your view as you wish. Black02SS hides this comparison by listing it as an "undockable map" to show favortism for EFI Live.
Ability to change histograms while scanning.
Ability to change charts while scanning.
Ability to change gauges while scanning.
Ability to change any unit value while scanning.
Abilty to change config files while scanning.
A much more modern look than EFI Lives software.
Useable task bars that are easy to use for new users.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Also, since this thread is geared toward first time users..

I've attached a cople of screenshots of what our toolbars look like for the VCM Editor and Scanner.

Note, on our VCM Scanner shot, I have a histogram window and a table display window open.. at the same time. Now you may think that is normal and to be expected, but Black02SS does not and will try to convince you otherwise with misguided information.

Also, in our editor, Look how easy it is to get to your parameters such as Engine, Trans, Speedo, etc. etc.. We put it all up at the top in an organized format for you. And if you don't like that format, we also give you a navigator that lists the parameters in a tree display as well. Again having both of these things is somethign Black02SS will probably try to lead you to believe are useless.

Lets see these same exact screenshots with EFI Live. Obviously the scanner one will be impossible to recreate due to the fact that they don't let you have multiple windows open at the same time.

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

I can pull up a thread on HPT where I asked to see decimal places in the AFR error Histogram and was told by Keith it wasnt needed and why would we want that feature. Your users have asked for a MAF error Histogram for a long time now. I dont see it in 1.7 or is it that a way to get people to upgrade and pay for 2.0 whos upgrade subscription expired before April 15th. What about the bug in 1.7 where you lose your whole log file if you turn off the car before stopping the scanner. Its a Vb6 runtime error that has been asked to be fixed. To my knowledge its still there. How about the -100 and +100 bug that skewed Histogram error % for LTFT, people wrote pearl scripts and excel sheets to get rid of this data re-inventing the wheel. Are all the v6 guys ecstatic about their features and what has been added of late.


You all run around here acting like Balck02SS and I type HPT 2.0 in a search and find all the threads to add our input. Its the cheerleaders acting like HPT is the end all be all who ONLY have used ONE program. Those are the ones who show the bias when the tout how much better HPT is than the competition. Most havent even dloaded the demo version of EFILive to check it out This is where I will give my input and correct the misinformation I see comming frmo biased parties.

Yes you did release 2.0 to a few people for beta testing and I commend you for doing such as it is almost a day late a dollar short. I have seen specific screenshots of 2.0.5 and know what works and doesnt work.

A plus to add to the HPT list Black02SS is their compare feature can compare different OS'd vehicles.

Frankly I dont see what the big deal is anyway. Both companies have great products just one suits my needs a little better at the moment and I am not afraid to say so. Glorified editiors and scanners is all it boils down to and with a vision anyone here who can code can churn out a decent workable product.

Magnus

iTrader: (4)

Another thing I remembered for your compare list..

VCM Scanner 2.0 has the ability to define charts, gauges, and histograms against generic sensors instead of more specific PID's.. Of course, this may not be that applicable if you use EFI Live because of the limited vehicle type support but with a product like ours that supports so many late model GM Vehicles, it comes in handy.

Also, I'm gonna take a stab before this thread gets locked and say that Black02SS will not make the correct changes/additions to the compare log as it will put too many pro's in the HPT list, or he will come up with reasons of why they are not valid comparisons, or somehow EFI Live already has a similar version of what I listed.

gameover

apparently efilive has something to offer? Or are you just trying to propagate yet another myth batted about by our V6 competitor... (last i heard they were trying to sell out).


go for it, it's so easy to do and you have all the info right? then you can start your own company and defend it against misinformation...

SideStep

HumpinSS

iTrader: (1)

If i wanted the info i wouldve started out where you and all the others started out. I have a BS in Comp Sci so I am pretty sure it wouldnt be to hard to figure out, after all you did it...