How is a car PROPERLY tuned??
01-21-2006, 05:25 PM
#1
How is a car PROPERLY tuned?? Will a program like LS1 edit properly tune a car without the use of a dyno, or does teh car have to be dyno tuned for it to be done safely and correct? I have headers installed, getting cam done soon and I want to make sure I take it to someone who does it right. Does it have to be on a dyno to be done right? Can it be tuned, dynoed to check the A/F ratio, and then tweaked with LS1 edit after the dyno? Or is that not a safe/good way to go about it? TIA
01-21-2006, 05:32 PM
#2
A road tune followed by a dyno tune is the best. A dyno is important to give you subjective results per RPM. For example you cannot feel a 5hp gain at 4k and a 3 hp loss at 6300rpm.
01-21-2006, 05:58 PM
#4
Well, you have to define the type of dyno you are using. A tune on the street is the best IMO since those are the conditions in which you operate your car. It can be dangerous doing 90+ MPH on the streets, however, which is something you need to do on occasion to make sure you get all the necessary data points.
Now, if you can find a chassis dyno (like a Mustang dyno) that mimics the same type of load you see on the street, that is great, but sometimes they are few and far between. Other dynos (like Dynojets, etc) don't load the car like on the street, and if you tune it on there, it won't be the same results as what you see on the street.
Now, if you can find a chassis dyno (like a Mustang dyno) that mimics the same type of load you see on the street, that is great, but sometimes they are few and far between. Other dynos (like Dynojets, etc) don't load the car like on the street, and if you tune it on there, it won't be the same results as what you see on the street.
01-21-2006, 06:22 PM
#5
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Well, you have to define the type of dyno you are using. A tune on the street is the best IMO since those are the conditions in which you operate your car. It can be dangerous doing 90+ MPH on the streets, however, which is something you need to do on occasion to make sure you get all the necessary data points.
Now, if you can find a chassis dyno (like a Mustang dyno) that mimics the same type of load you see on the street, that is great, but sometimes they are few and far between. Other dynos (like Dynojets, etc) don't load the car like on the street, and if you tune it on there, it won't be the same results as what you see on the street.
Now, if you can find a chassis dyno (like a Mustang dyno) that mimics the same type of load you see on the street, that is great, but sometimes they are few and far between. Other dynos (like Dynojets, etc) don't load the car like on the street, and if you tune it on there, it won't be the same results as what you see on the street.
So in this case it would be OK to have it tuned by someone who has LS1 edit, and then place it on the dyno to check A/F ratio and the wideband to check hp and tq #'s and adjust from there?
01-21-2006, 06:28 PM
#6
Well, I personally wouldn't use LS1Edit at all...I'd use either HPTuners or EFI's Flashscan with their enhanced interface. Nab a wideband O2 sensor (LC1s are nice), wire it in to the interface, log the data, and you'll have your car tuned damn near perfect.
Edit has fallen way behind in the tuning market...
Edit has fallen way behind in the tuning market...
01-21-2006, 06:35 PM
#7
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i agree with with Steve. Get tuners or efi and a WB, a LC1 at the very least. The only thing you will need a dyno for after that is for your timing tables...you will want to see your power vs spark and adjust. its really not that hard.
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01-21-2006, 08:59 PM
#8
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Agree with those above - a wideband must be used for the entire tuning process, not just on the dyno. You can totally tune on the street (or better yet the street/strip) if there is somewhere to safely run the car up in the rpms in high gear. The best dyno is in fact a load dyno that can load the car properly to ensure it gets a real world tune.
01-21-2006, 09:18 PM
#9
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Using HPTuners or EFILive and a wideband oxygen sensor (e.g. LC-1, PLX, Autronic, Tech Edge, etc...) you can perform an "automated" VE tune which is a very easy procedure and produces very good results.
Purchasing the above is money well spent, you'll learn about tuning, you'll be in control of your tune, and you'll wonder how you got by without.
Purchasing the above is money well spent, you'll learn about tuning, you'll be in control of your tune, and you'll wonder how you got by without.
01-22-2006, 09:55 AM
#11
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look at it like this...why use windows 3.1.1 when you could just as easily use XP.
Im not certain how EFI does it, but im sure its close to HPtuners, but you get your choice of 2 vehicle years at time of purchase where with Edit, you only get one VIN that means just that one car! not all 99's or 02's, just that 1. make sense now? its the smarter path to take.
Im not certain how EFI does it, but im sure its close to HPtuners, but you get your choice of 2 vehicle years at time of purchase where with Edit, you only get one VIN that means just that one car! not all 99's or 02's, just that 1. make sense now? its the smarter path to take.
01-22-2006, 10:25 AM
#12
Originally Posted by ninobrn99
look at it like this...why use windows 3.1.1 when you could just as easily use XP.
Im not certain how EFI does it, but im sure its close to HPtuners, but you get your choice of 2 vehicle years at time of purchase where with Edit, you only get one VIN that means just that one car! not all 99's or 02's, just that 1. make sense now? its the smarter path to take.
Im not certain how EFI does it, but im sure its close to HPtuners, but you get your choice of 2 vehicle years at time of purchase where with Edit, you only get one VIN that means just that one car! not all 99's or 02's, just that 1. make sense now? its the smarter path to take.
hes not talking about tuning it him self hes talking about having someone tune it...... hes not gonna buy software he was just asking what a good way a shop to do it is......
but if he were gonna buy software to use in the future i would 100% agree with u to get hp tuners....
01-22-2006, 10:46 AM
#14
damn right, there are very few people you can trust to put a good tune on a car for you, and doing it all at a shop (most of the time) will not fix other issues you may have. a dyno is a great tool to play around with timing and AFR and seeing what makes the best power with the "safer" adjustments. if u run 30* of timing and only make 2 more hp than 25* of timing, then there is no need for that extra 5*. you can also see what afr you r car seems to like the most throughout the rpm range. then you can go on the street and retune the afr to hit these marks. a good bit can change from the street to the dyno.
01-22-2006, 12:02 PM
#15
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
then you can go on the street and retune the afr to hit these marks. a good bit can change from the street to the dyno.
I think you would be surpized if you compared the same wideband on the dyno as off the dyno. What a LC1 reports and what a dynojet wideband reports are 2 different things.
01-22-2006, 12:19 PM
#16
TECH Senior Member
If you drive on the street, you want to own a package like EFILive or HPTuners.
Even if you get a dyno tune, there are things you want to tweak that the dyno shop can't do because of the difference between running on a dyno and driving on the street, and you don't want to run to the dyno shop every time you change something.
EFILive and HPTuners are similar and have similar capabilities;
they display the various tables in 3-D and provide explanations of how the various tables and parameters work;
they also have excellent scanning and logging capabilites;
they also support "automated" tuning using a wideband O2 sensor;
they both have excellent support and forums where you can get help;
I have never used LS1Edit, but my understanding (from researching on the web) is that it is lacking in these areas.
I use EFILive and I use it every day, and I am not involved in the automotive industry at all;
download their software and run it in demo mode (i.e. no cable attached) and try it out.
Even if you get a dyno tune, there are things you want to tweak that the dyno shop can't do because of the difference between running on a dyno and driving on the street, and you don't want to run to the dyno shop every time you change something.
EFILive and HPTuners are similar and have similar capabilities;
they display the various tables in 3-D and provide explanations of how the various tables and parameters work;
they also have excellent scanning and logging capabilites;
they also support "automated" tuning using a wideband O2 sensor;
they both have excellent support and forums where you can get help;
I have never used LS1Edit, but my understanding (from researching on the web) is that it is lacking in these areas.
I use EFILive and I use it every day, and I am not involved in the automotive industry at all;
download their software and run it in demo mode (i.e. no cable attached) and try it out.
01-22-2006, 12:41 PM
#17
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Like Alvin stated in post number 2 a dyno is a must for one to quantify results period. When I am finished with the calibration on the dyno I always have my customers take me out on the street and finish all the things that need to be addressed on the street.
As far as your question. It would take hours to type just a general overview of how to tune a vehicle the proper way. If you want to learn about tuning a good place to start would be at EFI University.
www.efi101.com
I am working on some stuff to release to the public over the internet that will help people in there understanding of the tuning process. Please look for it in the near future.
Chris Macellaro
As far as your question. It would take hours to type just a general overview of how to tune a vehicle the proper way. If you want to learn about tuning a good place to start would be at EFI University.
www.efi101.com
I am working on some stuff to release to the public over the internet that will help people in there understanding of the tuning process. Please look for it in the near future.
Chris Macellaro
01-22-2006, 01:49 PM
#19
OK then let me rephrase the Q.....Can I get a good solid tune if someone uses the LS1edit program on my car? Plan would be to tune it after cam install, run it on a dyno to check A/F and wideband, then retune to tweek the initial tune. Would this be alright and give me a good solid tune?