400+ cube VE Table Pics
07-16-2006, 06:57 AM
#1
400+ cube VE Table Pics I was think that it might be a good idea to post some screenshots of some dialed in VE Tables for the new guys to tuning (me) to look at and get an idea of what kind of numbers they should see vs. the setups in the sigs. This would come in especially handy for guys that don't have WBO2's (just got mine) and are struggling to dial things in as best as possible or for a baseline tune to get the car running after a motor swap.
07-17-2006, 01:54 PM
#3
Heya Phil,
I will send it to you to see if you can see any obvious screw ups. Give me an e-mail address. I have changed the cyliner volume and the injector flowrate for the 60's. The main reason that I started this thread was because when you don't have a WBO2, you have to log and make changes based on the stock O2's. My VE Table looks pretty high on the big end and I was wondering what other people have for values on this end also. The other thing that I am curious about is timing (regular, WOT, and Idle) to get a feel for what looks good. I changed the ECT IAT bias as posted by Soundengineer (not sure if it was here or on the HPT forum) and he said that the VE values would have to be raised which I have already done. Sorry about the random thoughts spewed out all over this paragraph.
I will send it to you to see if you can see any obvious screw ups. Give me an e-mail address. I have changed the cyliner volume and the injector flowrate for the 60's. The main reason that I started this thread was because when you don't have a WBO2, you have to log and make changes based on the stock O2's. My VE Table looks pretty high on the big end and I was wondering what other people have for values on this end also. The other thing that I am curious about is timing (regular, WOT, and Idle) to get a feel for what looks good. I changed the ECT IAT bias as posted by Soundengineer (not sure if it was here or on the HPT forum) and he said that the VE values would have to be raised which I have already done. Sorry about the random thoughts spewed out all over this paragraph.
07-17-2006, 01:56 PM
#4
TECH Senior Member
keep in mind there are MANY factors that influence the characteristics of the VE table... the displacement of the engine is just one of them.... (cam design has a huge effect on this, but so do exhaust components, intake manifold, heads, etc...)
Also keep in mind if you don't have a WB02 (even if someone has a similar setup to yours... any tune other than your own should be looked at as a reference... never just copied into another vehicle) then high RPM high load tuning is basically impossible... (at least not to do safely... 14.7:1 afr at 105kpa and 6000 RPMs isn't suggested lol
)
Also keep in mind if you don't have a WB02 (even if someone has a similar setup to yours... any tune other than your own should be looked at as a reference... never just copied into another vehicle) then high RPM high load tuning is basically impossible... (at least not to do safely... 14.7:1 afr at 105kpa and 6000 RPMs isn't suggested lol
) 
07-17-2006, 02:09 PM
#6
I have been waiting for the wideband for 2 weeks and I finally got it (used) from a buddy. I got it all wired up and ran the lead from the brown wire on the EGR as per your post Dude and another that I saw. I went to define the analog voltage and realized that I didn't get the serial cable from my buddy. Soooooooo, I am just waiting for him to find it so that I can get this thing dialed in correctly.
I have a question with regards to timing though. Without a dyno, how do you get the timing dialed in right? I have seen the raise the timing till you get knock theory but that doesn't work for me as I have the shitty 98 sensors and have had to numb them down so much at 26* just to not get the false knock that I don't feel comfortable using this method. Come on, share some of the magic!!!!
I have a question with regards to timing though. Without a dyno, how do you get the timing dialed in right? I have seen the raise the timing till you get knock theory but that doesn't work for me as I have the shitty 98 sensors and have had to numb them down so much at 26* just to not get the false knock that I don't feel comfortable using this method. Come on, share some of the magic!!!!
07-17-2006, 02:20 PM
#7
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Good heads don't usually need as much timing, so 26* may be all the more timing you need. If reducing timing made the knock retard go away, then you probably had real knock rather than false knock. 
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07-17-2006, 02:33 PM
#8
reducing the sensitivity made the knock go away. I was getting false knock no matter where my timing was set. My question about the timing is not just for WOT though. I would like some tips as to how to determine good idle timing and drivability timing.
07-17-2006, 02:37 PM
#9
Originally Posted by horist
keep in mind there are MANY factors that influence the characteristics of the VE table... the displacement of the engine is just one of them.... (cam design has a huge effect on this, but so do exhaust components, intake manifold, heads, etc...)
Most definately true. I dialed in my ve tables a few weeks ago commanding 13:1 everywhere, and the car would constantly idle surge. When I re-enabled the MAF, the car idled great but showed like 17.2:1 on the wideband. I was a little worried at first, but the person tuning my car now explained that it was likely picking up bleed-by from the cam overlap at low rpms. Something that makes total sense but I completely forgot to factor in.
07-17-2006, 03:03 PM
#10
I was under the impression that you should be close to 14.7:1 (Stoich) during normal driving and idle. The PE (Commanded AFR) only kicks in during WOT. It has no effect on the other driving conditions. VE is what effects normal driving. Correct me if I am wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Speaking of time. I would like some input on tuning the timing tables at idle and under normal driving. How do you know if you are running the correct amount of timing at idle?