SilverSmoke

I looked in the repository, but nothing there.

I just want to compare what my spark and PE table looks like vs everyone elses out there, I'm mostly interested to see how aggressive people got, and positive results with normal driving vs wot. I have some decent numbers on the dyno, but from looking at the dyno graphs posted, probably some more I can get out of the car.

Can PM me if don't want to share with the world. Would greatly appreciate the help and direction

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

WOT should be in the area of ~28* from 2200rpm on up dropping to 26* or so around peak torque. Details of what I did for part throttle and idle control are over at the EFI Live forum in the tutorial section in the idle tuning sticky.

SilverSmoke

here, I will start in case anyone is shy

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

You could probably run a little more timing in the lower rpm range. Like I mentioned above, you can be at ~28* by 2200rpm.

SilverSmoke

I could try it out, see what happens on the torque histogram I have. I basically nailed down the PE, the spark I played with, but didn't provide me much of anything, and sometimes hurt me. I noticed my graph vs others for tqII cams, I have a slightly fatter torque curve down low, but it seems my 4krpm to 5krpm doesn't jump up sharply like others do.

What I also need to get down though is everything beneath WOT.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

WOT tuning really needs to be done on a dyno to find out for sure.

Looking at your part throttle stuff, I'd be willing to bet you get some surging below 1700rpm at light or no throttle. Am I right?

Frost

iTrader: (45)

+1 that's a lot of timing in that area...

I've done 2 recently and they both looked about the same as both setups were similar.


In this file (I attached the tune down below), the VE was tuned to about 2K and the MAF was calibrated against it above that (with RTT) so that commanded WOT fueling could be met. In other words, don't load this whole thing up; it's tuned against this guy's MAF. PE is 12.7:1 up to 5200 where it moves to 13.0:1. As mentioned, this vehicle has the MAF plus OS with Real time tuning.

SilverSmoke

Hey, your good, lol! Yes, I do get part throttle surging which I've tried to remedy, but no luck. Even in VCM controls, I've locked onto spark and played with it up/down, but no such luck reducing it any. Any hinters?

The torque histogram seem to work pretty good for WOT, granted may not be as exact as a dyno, but pretty good, and its real world since you are getting the fresh air up front when moving, at least on the ram air.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

This is a good cam and has made good numbers... one of the 2 A4s that I tuned was MUCH touchier just off of idle than the other. I thought it was a bit odd. Good luck.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

Sure. Try and zero out your throttle cracker for all of the 1000 and 1600 rpm cells. Make all of the 400 rpm cells 1.0 gram/second. That way if it tries to stall when coasting, it has a quick 'catch' via the IAC.

Then, try using my spark numbers below for your base spark and high/low octane. I know it's in EFI Live format. But, you can get a general idea of where it's at.





Assuming you have your base running airflow dialed in relatively well, this should work pretty well - at least as a starting point.

SilverSmoke

Sweet! Thank you so much! very interesting as I didn't know about the throttle cracker and how it works with IAC. For some reason lately since its gotten very warm out, or if the car sits in traffic and gets hot, it wants to stall every time I turn the steering wheel on a turn or when parking with the clutch pushed in. Was perfectly fine in the fall when it was tuned.

Hopefully the monsoon stops here so I can take her out and try this.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

No problem. Make sure you change the low airflow (<0.32 grams/cyl), low rpm (<2000 rpm) spark too. It's the combo of both that helps get rid of the surging.

As for sitting in traffic, when the IAT warms up, the engine starts to lean out. If you're running closed loop, the fuel trims should start to compensate by going positive. If you're running open loop, the fueling just goes lean and idle/driveability goes to **** somewhat until IAT's come back down. You might want to do the RAFIG process now that the weather has warmed up to make sure you have enough in your base running airflow table for the higher temps.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Really?!? 28* at 2200 RPM? Damn, I dont hit 28* till over 6K!

What compression are you running? Also, Did you dip down at Max Tq.?

Edit: just read you go down to 26 @ max tq.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

I morphed a '99 table with an '01/'02 table. That's why it's so high before peak torque. I'm running ported 241's that may have been resurfaced, but not mill entirely too much. Those plus a 232/238 .595/.605 112 XE-R cam and 7.4 pushrods (pre-load specs at .055). The problem is I bought the car with the current setup. So, I don't know too many other details. =/

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Well, I tried SSpdDmon's timing tables on my commute to work today. Its certainly a noticeable difference in midrange. Tires break loose from a 2nd gear rolling punch much earlier in the RPM range now. I wont get too angry that you killed my traction!

Anyway, I noticed directly off idle, it feels a little softer than what im used to. My timing was much higher, up to 10* higher in some places. I notice a lot of other people climb pretty high right off idle too. Whats youre take on this? To be honest, i havnt noticed any change in the low rpm / low load bucking.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

My table was low in that area because of cam-surge when the guy's verter was locked up at low RPM. It's virtually gone.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

Frost, even though youre idle area is flat, its still a lot higher. Infact thats a TON of timing pretty much everywhere. I cant seem to get rid o fthe bucking no matter where I put the timing, however it really isnt all that bad. My stock WRX surges worse in the same area.

Frost

iTrader: (45)

It's lower than stock in that area, and it was low enough to get it vanish on his car. When his car was in OL tuning with the WB it bucked bad at 14.9 and anywhere leaner as well. If you ask me the whole thing looks a bit high, WOT especially but it made the numbers there and didnt knock a bit, so thats where it was left. It actually picked up 8rwhp up from 26deg WOT and the torque all of the way through. I don't know about you guys but that's more than I'm used to seeing (gain wise) from timing.

SSpdDmon

iTrader: (10)

The high octane timing isn't the only culprit. I had to adjust my base timing as well as kill the IAC where I was getting surging (zero'd out the 1000 & 1600 rpm cells). Getting all three of those to play nice together helped eliminate a ton of surging. Now, I can go around corners at 1300rpm and not have to put the clutch in because I'm getting whiplash.

Besides, directly off idle I want it soft. I should be able to pull away from a stop with an open cup of coffee on the dash and not worry about it tipping over. Keep in mind, these aftermarket cams are no where near as 'efficient' as the stock cam down below 1600rpm. That's why higher gears and higher converters are recommended with the purchase of a cam....at least, that's my $0.02.

GuitsBoy

iTrader: (4)

My IAC is rock solid. Ive leveled my cracker table out. I understand the lack of efficiency at low rpms of course. I had compensated with extra timing to make for a faster revving motor. I like how snappy it was. Im just afraid adding timing back in might counteract any benefit in terms of bucking reduction...

Frost: Yeah, that is a good gain, usually you dont see much gain once you get past 25*. Thanks for the info...