Running way to lean in cold open loop. How do I fix it?
12-22-2007, 10:14 PM
#1
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Running way to lean in cold open loop. How do I fix it? As you can see when I give it a little throttle it runs lean. How do I go about fixing this? As you probably figured out I have EFI Live and a LC-1 wideband.
I messed up and did not record the feedback from the Lc-1 but it mostly follows the commanded fuel.
The second log has pid's for Auto Ve and it shows the LC-1.
MYfirebird start prog from doug 12-10-07.tun
first cold start log bird.efi
SD lean part throttle cold.efi
I messed up and did not record the feedback from the Lc-1 but it mostly follows the commanded fuel.
The second log has pid's for Auto Ve and it shows the LC-1.
MYfirebird start prog from doug 12-10-07.tun
first cold start log bird.efi
SD lean part throttle cold.efi
12-22-2007, 10:21 PM
#2
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Im pretty sure I have to change my b3605 table but why dose it only use this table with throttle? it snaps back to good fuel ratio when their is no throtle. Dose it get its idle fuel ratio from another table?
Thanks
Thanks
12-23-2007, 01:20 PM
#6
At first I was going to suggest restarting from stock but I did some research just in case and found this:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11164
Appearently, with these injectors require you to lie to the PCM so in theory if you try to make the tune file reflect rational numbers you might actually cause more harm.
Without closely watching your WB I would be careful about making changes even if you think it might help!!
Hopefully, the PM from the previous member helped you out, too. Maybe some other people will join on in and take a look at the tune. The fudged numbers are appearently confusing for us. Some of the board members might see them as typical for those mods....
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11164
Appearently, with these injectors require you to lie to the PCM so in theory if you try to make the tune file reflect rational numbers you might actually cause more harm.
Without closely watching your WB I would be careful about making changes even if you think it might help!!
Hopefully, the PM from the previous member helped you out, too. Maybe some other people will join on in and take a look at the tune. The fudged numbers are appearently confusing for us. Some of the board members might see them as typical for those mods....
12-23-2007, 01:43 PM
#7
If you are lean on startup, then add to the main and backup ve tables. Make sure they always match also.
The way to see how far off you are is, when the car is in closed loop, look at the strims. You need to turn off long terms while tuning and just go off of the faster reporting strims..
The way to see how far off you are is, when the car is in closed loop, look at the strims. You need to turn off long terms while tuning and just go off of the faster reporting strims..
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12-23-2007, 02:31 PM
#8
First off, I would start by putting the OL table back to stock. It's jacked up.
Second, start working the VE. It looks unchanged. The secondary one anyways. You need to work both of them at the same time.
Also, you need to configure your scanner to display the same measurement units as your tune. In other words, your tune displays vacuum in Kpa, and your scanner is set up in in. of hg. Also temp in the tune is C*, and the scanner is F*. These should be the same so you can reference them accordingly.
I would also set it up so your narrowbands are active on your scanner. They're a good reference point to your WB readings.
Lastly, set up your tables in your scanner to plot the A/F correction, and dial in your VE tables. Both primary and secondary AT THE SAME TIME. The secondary is the most important, so make sure that one is changed every time. If you dont know how to do this, your tuner should. If he doesnt, go on the EFIlive forum and they should get you going.
The maf hasnt been failed, its still on. Long terms need to be diabled.
The whole tune is pretty well wacked.
Second, start working the VE. It looks unchanged. The secondary one anyways. You need to work both of them at the same time.
Also, you need to configure your scanner to display the same measurement units as your tune. In other words, your tune displays vacuum in Kpa, and your scanner is set up in in. of hg. Also temp in the tune is C*, and the scanner is F*. These should be the same so you can reference them accordingly.
I would also set it up so your narrowbands are active on your scanner. They're a good reference point to your WB readings.
Lastly, set up your tables in your scanner to plot the A/F correction, and dial in your VE tables. Both primary and secondary AT THE SAME TIME. The secondary is the most important, so make sure that one is changed every time. If you dont know how to do this, your tuner should. If he doesnt, go on the EFIlive forum and they should get you going.
The maf hasnt been failed, its still on. Long terms need to be diabled.
The whole tune is pretty well wacked.
12-23-2007, 05:21 PM
#9
First off, I would start by putting the OL table back to stock. It's jacked up.
Second, start working the VE. It looks unchanged. The secondary one anyways. You need to work both of them at the same time.
Also, you need to configure your scanner to display the same measurement units as your tune. In other words, your tune displays vacuum in Kpa, and your scanner is set up in in. of hg. Also temp in the tune is C*, and the scanner is F*. These should be the same so you can reference them accordingly.
I would also set it up so your narrowbands are active on your scanner. They're a good reference point to your WB readings.
Lastly, set up your tables in your scanner to plot the A/F correction, and dial in your VE tables. Both primary and secondary AT THE SAME TIME. The secondary is the most important, so make sure that one is changed every time. If you dont know how to do this, your tuner should. If he doesnt, go on the EFIlive forum and they should get you going.
The maf hasnt been failed, its still on. Long terms need to be diabled.
The whole tune is pretty well wacked.
Second, start working the VE. It looks unchanged. The secondary one anyways. You need to work both of them at the same time.
Also, you need to configure your scanner to display the same measurement units as your tune. In other words, your tune displays vacuum in Kpa, and your scanner is set up in in. of hg. Also temp in the tune is C*, and the scanner is F*. These should be the same so you can reference them accordingly.
I would also set it up so your narrowbands are active on your scanner. They're a good reference point to your WB readings.
Lastly, set up your tables in your scanner to plot the A/F correction, and dial in your VE tables. Both primary and secondary AT THE SAME TIME. The secondary is the most important, so make sure that one is changed every time. If you dont know how to do this, your tuner should. If he doesnt, go on the EFIlive forum and they should get you going.
The maf hasnt been failed, its still on. Long terms need to be diabled.
The whole tune is pretty well wacked.
The MAF is lower than stock.
The Main VE is lower than stock but the IFR is very high.
The Com afr is wacked but everything else is off to make the Real AFR correct again.
That means the spark table doesn't reflect what is really going on either.
It would take careful massaging or starting from stock again.
BECAUSE THE PCM HAS LIMITS ON HOW RICH OR LEAN IT WILL COMMAND YOUR TUNE ISN'T POSSIBLE. Hence many of the problems. Especially in open loop.
12-23-2007, 09:30 PM
#11
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I have not changed the tune at all this is a Dyno Tune I recived.
I want to know what Im changing and how it all work before I dive in an screwup a good Lsx 454.
I plan on doing the Auto Ve first but we have alot of snow here so I can't drive it. Im not sure why it read c and f for you but when I look at it, it all matches Hg and F*
I also plan on upgrading to the 2002 Operating system.
I want to know what Im changing and how it all work before I dive in an screwup a good Lsx 454.
I plan on doing the Auto Ve first but we have alot of snow here so I can't drive it. Im not sure why it read c and f for you but when I look at it, it all matches Hg and F*
I also plan on upgrading to the 2002 Operating system.
First off, I would start by putting the OL table back to stock. It's jacked up.
Second, start working the VE. It looks unchanged. The secondary one anyways. You need to work both of them at the same time.
Also, you need to configure your scanner to display the same measurement units as your tune. In other words, your tune displays vacuum in Kpa, and your scanner is set up in in. of hg. Also temp in the tune is C*, and the scanner is F*. These should be the same so you can reference them accordingly.
I would also set it up so your narrowbands are active on your scanner. They're a good reference point to your WB readings.
Lastly, set up your tables in your scanner to plot the A/F correction, and dial in your VE tables. Both primary and secondary AT THE SAME TIME. The secondary is the most important, so make sure that one is changed every time. If you dont know how to do this, your tuner should. If he doesnt, go on the EFIlive forum and they should get you going.
The maf hasnt been failed, its still on. Long terms need to be diabled.
The whole tune is pretty well wacked.
Second, start working the VE. It looks unchanged. The secondary one anyways. You need to work both of them at the same time.
Also, you need to configure your scanner to display the same measurement units as your tune. In other words, your tune displays vacuum in Kpa, and your scanner is set up in in. of hg. Also temp in the tune is C*, and the scanner is F*. These should be the same so you can reference them accordingly.
I would also set it up so your narrowbands are active on your scanner. They're a good reference point to your WB readings.
Lastly, set up your tables in your scanner to plot the A/F correction, and dial in your VE tables. Both primary and secondary AT THE SAME TIME. The secondary is the most important, so make sure that one is changed every time. If you dont know how to do this, your tuner should. If he doesnt, go on the EFIlive forum and they should get you going.
The maf hasnt been failed, its still on. Long terms need to be diabled.
The whole tune is pretty well wacked.
12-23-2007, 10:12 PM
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you don't need to lie to your computer about the 60# injectors. you just have to have a FPR or enough idle airflow to take advantage of such a big injector.
how is this a dyno tune you recieved and its running lean? this shop or whoever needs to fix it.
get you an 02 operating system or pcm swap or something. then re-tune. these older pcms i think cannot take the custom OS's...i don't remember all the details... been out of it lately on the car scene.
how is this a dyno tune you recieved and its running lean? this shop or whoever needs to fix it.
get you an 02 operating system or pcm swap or something. then re-tune. these older pcms i think cannot take the custom OS's...i don't remember all the details... been out of it lately on the car scene.
12-24-2007, 07:43 AM
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you don't need to lie to your computer about the 60# injectors. you just have to have a FPR or enough idle airflow to take advantage of such a big injector.
how is this a dyno tune you recieved and its running lean? this shop or whoever needs to fix it.
get you an 02 operating system or pcm swap or something. then re-tune. these older pcms i think cannot take the custom OS's...i don't remember all the details... been out of it lately on the car scene.
how is this a dyno tune you recieved and its running lean? this shop or whoever needs to fix it.
get you an 02 operating system or pcm swap or something. then re-tune. these older pcms i think cannot take the custom OS's...i don't remember all the details... been out of it lately on the car scene.
Also I know these injector are to big for the current setup but They will be needed later when I install the Ls7 top end!
12-24-2007, 07:47 AM
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I saw the lean limit but It actualy commands a ratio leaner than that, Why is that?
Yup. That was my thought. The displacement is wrong too so the VE doesn't reflect what is really there.
The MAF is lower than stock.
The Main VE is lower than stock but the IFR is very high.
The Com afr is wacked but everything else is off to make the Real AFR correct again.
That means the spark table doesn't reflect what is really going on either.
It would take careful massaging or starting from stock again.
BECAUSE THE PCM HAS LIMITS ON HOW RICH OR LEAN IT WILL COMMAND YOUR TUNE ISN'T POSSIBLE. Hence many of the problems. Especially in open loop.
The MAF is lower than stock.
The Main VE is lower than stock but the IFR is very high.
The Com afr is wacked but everything else is off to make the Real AFR correct again.
That means the spark table doesn't reflect what is really going on either.
It would take careful massaging or starting from stock again.
BECAUSE THE PCM HAS LIMITS ON HOW RICH OR LEAN IT WILL COMMAND YOUR TUNE ISN'T POSSIBLE. Hence many of the problems. Especially in open loop.
12-24-2007, 07:58 AM
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Can someone answer my biggest Question???
With the overlap I have in the Cam Fool the narrow and or wideband o2 sensors into reading a false lean condition in the lower RPM's???
I need to know if I can trust my Wideband before I make any changes in the lower RPM's!!!!
With the overlap I have in the Cam Fool the narrow and or wideband o2 sensors into reading a false lean condition in the lower RPM's???
I need to know if I can trust my Wideband before I make any changes in the lower RPM's!!!!
12-24-2007, 08:42 AM
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Here is my understanding of it....
A cam with alot of overlap will fool the stock O2's into thinking the engine is running lean. As a result of that, the ECM will command more fuel into the engine in an attemp to correct a "percieved" lean condition. A "chase your tail" scenerio.
Here is what I would do:
1. Save your tune (just in case)
2. Upgrade to the an O2 OS
3. Download the "stock tune migrated to an 02 OS" from Holden Crazy.
4. Open two instances of the EFIlive Tuning Tool.
5. Copy over all pertanent tables from your tune to the tune on the 02 OS.
6. When you get a chance do the AutoVE tutorial.
Like Ed and Six speed have said.... you need to AutoVE. I would suggest the 02 OS first so you dont have to mess with the back-up VE table.
Hopefully this helps a bit.
R/
Frat
A cam with alot of overlap will fool the stock O2's into thinking the engine is running lean. As a result of that, the ECM will command more fuel into the engine in an attemp to correct a "percieved" lean condition. A "chase your tail" scenerio.
Here is what I would do:
1. Save your tune (just in case)
2. Upgrade to the an O2 OS
3. Download the "stock tune migrated to an 02 OS" from Holden Crazy.
4. Open two instances of the EFIlive Tuning Tool.
5. Copy over all pertanent tables from your tune to the tune on the 02 OS.
6. When you get a chance do the AutoVE tutorial.
Like Ed and Six speed have said.... you need to AutoVE. I would suggest the 02 OS first so you dont have to mess with the back-up VE table.
Hopefully this helps a bit.
R/
Frat
