want to richen my WOT mixture a little EFI Live
10-07-2008, 11:51 PM
#1
want to richen my WOT mixture a little EFI Live Wide open it's about 13.2 on the wideband and I would feel better if it is in the 12.8 range. What table do I need to change? I'm not really new to this but just arent sure what to change. Can this be changed pretty easy? I have EFI Live
Last edited by mvvette97; 10-08-2008 at 12:46 AM.
10-08-2008, 09:30 AM
#2
you take your actual af you see at that rpm, then divide that value by the af you want to be, then go to PE vs RPM and modify that table. B3618
If you want it to be in lambada, af, or eq ratio for that table, you can set the lables to anything you want by going to the EDIT tab. then Properties, then select what you want in the commanded airfuel tab. I usually pick AFR then you dont have to do any math to convert it over to another format.
If you want it to be in lambada, af, or eq ratio for that table, you can set the lables to anything you want by going to the EDIT tab. then Properties, then select what you want in the commanded airfuel tab. I usually pick AFR then you dont have to do any math to convert it over to another format.
10-08-2008, 02:38 PM
#4
Your commanding a 11.7 from 2400-6800 rpms, but your airflow values are not correct, so your lean across the board.
Without seeing a datalog, you need to at least set your PE table to the AFR you want (ie, 1.14375) and then adjust the airflow values to get your fueling in line.
Ryan
Without seeing a datalog, you need to at least set your PE table to the AFR you want (ie, 1.14375) and then adjust the airflow values to get your fueling in line.
Ryan
10-08-2008, 04:14 PM
#5
this sucks, I had a tuner tune my car over logging and emailing back and forth. There is no tuners around here at all because I would rather just have it tuned on a dyno. I can do small things myself with timing and other things but man this fueling gets me so lost. I"m not sure how to even hook my wideband up to my laptop. It didn't come with anything. It does have a wire I think on the back of the gauge that is for data logging but not sure where or how to connect it. It's an AEM gauge.
10-09-2008, 06:08 AM
#8
Although you are commanding 11.7 from 2400-6000, your Maximum enrichment limit (B3606) is set to 13.0095:1 or .885 lambda. So, change (B3606) Maximum enrichment to 0.857 (12.6:1) & you should see your WOT A/F ratio drop. 12.6:1 may seem low to you, but, have allowed for some safety because you are seeing 13.2 while set to 13.
Once 12.6-12.8 ish during WOT has been confirmed, go to your PE Modifier based on RPM table (B3618) & change each cells from 2400-6000 RPM to 0.857 lambda.
During WOT, your VE table is a secondary reference to your PE table. While it is important to correctly calibrate the VE table in the higher RPM cells, the PE table will provide ample WOT fueling after you adjust as noted. However, if there is ever a MAF failure, the PCM will go back to the VE table. So, you should increase the higher RPM VE table values to correctly reflect actual.
EDIT NOTE:
To put it simply, if you just change B3606 from 0.885 to 0.857, you should accomplish what your looking for until you have time to find a tuner.
Once 12.6-12.8 ish during WOT has been confirmed, go to your PE Modifier based on RPM table (B3618) & change each cells from 2400-6000 RPM to 0.857 lambda.
During WOT, your VE table is a secondary reference to your PE table. While it is important to correctly calibrate the VE table in the higher RPM cells, the PE table will provide ample WOT fueling after you adjust as noted. However, if there is ever a MAF failure, the PCM will go back to the VE table. So, you should increase the higher RPM VE table values to correctly reflect actual.
EDIT NOTE:
To put it simply, if you just change B3606 from 0.885 to 0.857, you should accomplish what your looking for until you have time to find a tuner.
Last edited by LS1-450; 10-09-2008 at 06:14 AM. Reason: added edit note
10-09-2008, 07:57 AM
#9
The B3606 value is stock, and I do not think that changing it would make the fueling richer. I've never had to change it on any car i've worked on, and never had an issue having commanded = actual, when changing the rest of the tune.
I would give this tune a try, or at least look at the changes compared to your tune, and you will see how the PE table is commanding what your looking for (12.8 across the board) and then increase your airflow values (assuming your using the maf) by the 13.2/11.7 ratio.
Ryan
I would give this tune a try, or at least look at the changes compared to your tune, and you will see how the PE table is commanding what your looking for (12.8 across the board) and then increase your airflow values (assuming your using the maf) by the 13.2/11.7 ratio.
Ryan
10-09-2008, 08:49 AM
#10
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It sounds like your tune doesn't follow the theories of the masses here. So, I'd say you have two options. Read up on what everyone says is right around here and start from scratch OR change B3618 like Jesse suggested above to richen your WOT AFR.
IMO, I'd say take option 'b' for now until you can build up your knowledge base and better understand option 'a'. If you agree, try changing your commanded AFR from 11.7:1 to 11.1:1 where it's lean. Flash in the changes and drive the car around for a day or two like that. Then, see where your AFR is at WOT. It's important to give it a few days to allow the fuel trims some time to learn. If you overshot with 11:1 and now it's running too rich, try 11.2 or 11.3. Likewise, if it's not enough, try 11.0 or 10.9. You'll get it in a couple tries...if not the first this way.
IMO, I'd say take option 'b' for now until you can build up your knowledge base and better understand option 'a'. If you agree, try changing your commanded AFR from 11.7:1 to 11.1:1 where it's lean. Flash in the changes and drive the car around for a day or two like that. Then, see where your AFR is at WOT. It's important to give it a few days to allow the fuel trims some time to learn. If you overshot with 11:1 and now it's running too rich, try 11.2 or 11.3. Likewise, if it's not enough, try 11.0 or 10.9. You'll get it in a couple tries...if not the first this way.
10-09-2008, 09:42 AM
#11
B3606 is ONLY USED WHEN THE ENGINE IS OVER HEATING. That will not effect normal wot fueling.
So dont mess with that.
PE vs rpm just make the change to the table i had mentioned and you are finished.. It is a simple change.
As for what tables control wot fueling, that would be VE table maf sensor blend until the rpm stated in table, B0120. At that rpm point the computer will use MAF sensor only. So moving that value lower or higher will make the maf sensor more or less in charge after it hits that rpm.
So, VE table will make changes at wot from below that value but not above. "Unless there is a maf failure"
Changing maf values is VERY rare to have to change them on chevy engines. There are alot more easier things to change to make things right.
But if you do mess with the maf sensor calibration. MAKE SURE ALL the data points are higher than the one before or it will mess with fueling in a bad way..
So dont mess with that.
PE vs rpm just make the change to the table i had mentioned and you are finished.. It is a simple change.
As for what tables control wot fueling, that would be VE table maf sensor blend until the rpm stated in table, B0120. At that rpm point the computer will use MAF sensor only. So moving that value lower or higher will make the maf sensor more or less in charge after it hits that rpm.
So, VE table will make changes at wot from below that value but not above. "Unless there is a maf failure"
Changing maf values is VERY rare to have to change them on chevy engines. There are alot more easier things to change to make things right.
But if you do mess with the maf sensor calibration. MAKE SURE ALL the data points are higher than the one before or it will mess with fueling in a bad way..
10-09-2008, 12:28 PM
#12
B3606 is ONLY USED WHEN THE ENGINE IS OVER HEATING. That will not effect normal wot fueling.
So dont mess with that.
PE vs rpm just make the change to the table i had mentioned and you are finished.. It is a simple change.
As for what tables control wot fueling, that would be VE table maf sensor blend until the rpm stated in table, B0120. At that rpm point the computer will use MAF sensor only. So moving that value lower or higher will make the maf sensor more or less in charge after it hits that rpm.
So, VE table will make changes at wot from below that value but not above. "Unless there is a maf failure"
Changing maf values is VERY rare to have to change them on chevy engines. There are alot more easier things to change to make things right.
But if you do mess with the maf sensor calibration. MAKE SURE ALL the data points are higher than the one before or it will mess with fueling in a bad way..
So dont mess with that.
PE vs rpm just make the change to the table i had mentioned and you are finished.. It is a simple change.
As for what tables control wot fueling, that would be VE table maf sensor blend until the rpm stated in table, B0120. At that rpm point the computer will use MAF sensor only. So moving that value lower or higher will make the maf sensor more or less in charge after it hits that rpm.
So, VE table will make changes at wot from below that value but not above. "Unless there is a maf failure"
Changing maf values is VERY rare to have to change them on chevy engines. There are alot more easier things to change to make things right.
But if you do mess with the maf sensor calibration. MAKE SURE ALL the data points are higher than the one before or it will mess with fueling in a bad way..
10-09-2008, 12:29 PM
#13
The B3606 value is stock, and I do not think that changing it would make the fueling richer. I've never had to change it on any car i've worked on, and never had an issue having commanded = actual, when changing the rest of the tune.
I would give this tune a try, or at least look at the changes compared to your tune, and you will see how the PE table is commanding what your looking for (12.8 across the board) and then increase your airflow values (assuming your using the maf) by the 13.2/11.7 ratio.
Ryan
I would give this tune a try, or at least look at the changes compared to your tune, and you will see how the PE table is commanding what your looking for (12.8 across the board) and then increase your airflow values (assuming your using the maf) by the 13.2/11.7 ratio.
Ryan
10-09-2008, 12:46 PM
#14
It sounds like your tune doesn't follow the theories of the masses here. So, I'd say you have two options. Read up on what everyone says is right around here and start from scratch OR change B3618 like Jesse suggested above to richen your WOT AFR.
IMO, I'd say take option 'b' for now until you can build up your knowledge base and better understand option 'a'. If you agree, try changing your commanded AFR from 11.7:1 to 11.1:1 where it's lean. Flash in the changes and drive the car around for a day or two like that. Then, see where your AFR is at WOT. It's important to give it a few days to allow the fuel trims some time to learn. If you overshot with 11:1 and now it's running too rich, try 11.2 or 11.3. Likewise, if it's not enough, try 11.0 or 10.9. You'll get it in a couple tries...if not the first this way.
IMO, I'd say take option 'b' for now until you can build up your knowledge base and better understand option 'a'. If you agree, try changing your commanded AFR from 11.7:1 to 11.1:1 where it's lean. Flash in the changes and drive the car around for a day or two like that. Then, see where your AFR is at WOT. It's important to give it a few days to allow the fuel trims some time to learn. If you overshot with 11:1 and now it's running too rich, try 11.2 or 11.3. Likewise, if it's not enough, try 11.0 or 10.9. You'll get it in a couple tries...if not the first this way.
10-09-2008, 02:51 PM
#15
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Ahh, I see what you are saying. Pretty much I need to ignore what the tune says as the commanded AFR since I'm in fact leaner than what the tune says. I'll see if I can change the commanded to 11.2 to see if that will bring me down in the 12.8 range then. So what really is it that is not set right that is not allowing the shown commanded to not be actual? Could it be maf tables or what? I'm determined to learn how to do all of this.
Personally, I'd say to you for now:
If the car is driving fine, your fuel trims are within reason (+/- 5~7%), and your WOT AFR is steady and consistent from day to day, hold on to the tune you have and make the simple change Jesse and I suggested above.
I say this because if my previous statement is true, then the net result (i.e. that which the engine sees) is OK. You can throw 100 million calibrations in a PCM and shake it up. But at the end of the day, the engine needs the right air, fuel, and spark combo to run right.
In the interest of learning, you can read, read, read, and try out theories that you learn along the way. But, I'd always keep a copy of the tune you have now as a backup.
Oh, and get yourself a MAF with a screen in it.
10-09-2008, 03:09 PM
#16
MAF, VE, Injector Flow Rate....they all play into commanded vs. actual.
Personally, I'd say to you for now:
If the car is driving fine, your fuel trims are within reason (+/- 5~7%), and your WOT AFR is steady and consistent from day to day, hold on to the tune you have and make the simple change Jesse and I suggested above.
I say this because if my previous statement is true, then the net result (i.e. that which the engine sees) is OK. You can throw 100 million calibrations in a PCM and shake it up. But at the end of the day, the engine needs the right air, fuel, and spark combo to run right.
In the interest of learning, you can read, read, read, and try out theories that you learn along the way. But, I'd always keep a copy of the tune you have now as a backup.
Oh, and get yourself a MAF with a screen in it.
Personally, I'd say to you for now:
If the car is driving fine, your fuel trims are within reason (+/- 5~7%), and your WOT AFR is steady and consistent from day to day, hold on to the tune you have and make the simple change Jesse and I suggested above.
I say this because if my previous statement is true, then the net result (i.e. that which the engine sees) is OK. You can throw 100 million calibrations in a PCM and shake it up. But at the end of the day, the engine needs the right air, fuel, and spark combo to run right.
In the interest of learning, you can read, read, read, and try out theories that you learn along the way. But, I'd always keep a copy of the tune you have now as a backup.
Oh, and get yourself a MAF with a screen in it.