Buying my first bird
11-09-2013, 12:31 AM
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Buying my first bird Hello everyone, first of all CONGRATULATIONS on your rides and the amount of knowledge you guys have on T/A, Camaros and Firebirds. For the longest time I have been wanting to own a sports car and finally the time is now, later on I'm going to look at a couple of Firebirds and hopefully I'll get to take one home.
I think the 1998-2002 Firebird is the perfect beginners sports car, not too expensive, awesome looks and for what I've read so far one of the top 10 engines of all time (the 3.8).
Hopefully someone out there gets a chance to see my post before I make a purchase later on, I would really appreciate some advice on what to look for and what to beware of on the 1998-2002 models, I know window and headlight motors are a common problem with these cars but what should I be looking for under the hood? I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks
I think the 1998-2002 Firebird is the perfect beginners sports car, not too expensive, awesome looks and for what I've read so far one of the top 10 engines of all time (the 3.8).
Hopefully someone out there gets a chance to see my post before I make a purchase later on, I would really appreciate some advice on what to look for and what to beware of on the 1998-2002 models, I know window and headlight motors are a common problem with these cars but what should I be looking for under the hood? I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks
11-09-2013, 01:41 AM
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This is something I found when I was looking to buy my car. I found it on another site and thought it was helpful so I thought I'd share.
Guide to Buying a Fbody
1. Check ALL lights. This means somehow checking to see if the dash lights work at night/dark. Also, if the dash dimmer switch is working. Check DRL (Day Time Running Lamps) to see if they are burned out. Some have problems with these lights and it usually always points to corroison of the bulb socket, and needs to be replaced. And the unit sealed better. Check that third brake light also and turn signal's. In general, think of every possible light on the car. Check it because it might be a little nightmare waiting for you after you sign the papers. Make sure all the dash warning lights do a test flash upon turning key on. They should all flash.
2. Head lamp motors. Notorious for failing. Usually due to opening while snow or ice is on/by the doors of the lamps. Test these a good 5 times, flipping them up and down. They should go pretty quick!
3. Power windows. Also notorious for failing. Check the motors by bringing the window up and then back down. A very slow action of the window could mean that motor is on its way out and you'll be replacing.
4. Rear end pinion seal. Ide tell you to check it, but chances are it IS leaking. Better way to say it is, its seeping. But they do sometimes have an actual leak. If there is a leak, the under body will be covered with gear oil. If its seeping ( classified by me, as just a light coat/dusting of oil around the seal) then I would probably just bring it up to the seller. Everything to give you a little more power in the buy helps.
5. Mods. If your going to try and venture into a car with modifications already done, verify that they are in fact there. Things like tranny upgrades can sometimes be hard to find, but obvious things like headers and after market cat backs etc will be easy. Be careful buying modded cars.
6. Wiring. Look closey at the exposed wiring under the hood. It should look factory. If there are any visible added wires, be aware the installer might have buggered up other electronics. ||| Turn the heads light on, AND the fog lights as well. Then turn the radio on. Make sure it comes in clear. My car had after market fog lamps or something to do with the wiring and it has some interferance with this.
7. Bald tires up front. Usually means some heavy burnouts just occured. Look for loose rubber in the rear wheel wells. Make sure there is at the most, two different brands of tires. If there are three brands or more, say something about it and see if you can either get the price dropped or a tire change.
8. Test parking brake. Get yourself on a good hill and see if it holds. It should. Parking Brake pads are kinda a pain in the *** to change.
9. Wrinkles in body. These cars are picky as to where they get jacked up from. I have seen pictures of members here where certain body panels have wrinkled from a poor jacking postion choice. Should be obvious.
10. Power antenna. These fail often and will either stick in the raised or lower postion. When you turn the car off, the antenna should lower, and vise versa.
11. Trunk release. Mine still fights me. Make sure it 'pops' open on first try. Probably wont, but it still some power to be had with the money end of the purchase.
12. Key FOB. This is the device on the key ring. It should do all function that are labeled on the FOB.
13. Bubbles on T-tops. They will be there. Cant really say much and gain any buying power unless the owner stated the paint was FLAWLESS. They are on many, many Fbodies and can be anywhere on the t-top portion of the car.
14. True WS-6, True SS. This class of car can easily be mimicked with just a few purchases. It does happen sadly but you can look for RPO door codes. The RPO codes will be listed on the inside door panel under the door latch. ***Codes for TA and Firebirds are (Did a quick search here, thanks 9T8W66)
WS9 is the Formula conversion Pkg
W66 is the Formula Merchandise Pkg
Y82 is the Trans Am Merchandise Pkg
All the V8 cars carry the WS9 Code, To be a Formula or Trans Am it must have the coresponding code aswell.
WS9 + W66 = Formula
WS9 + Y82 = Trans Am
WS9 + W66 + WS6 = Formula WS6
WS9 + Y82 + WS6 = Trans Am WS6
For Camaro's, try this. Call SLP, (732) 349-2109. Also look for a SLP sticker, some had it, some didnt. Or call the dealership with your VIN number and they will tell you.
Look for these codes. They mean something.
If it is a WS-6 or SS, make sure it has the appropriate 17" wheels.
15. Test the speakers, they are not the best, but they shouldnt kackle at low volume levels either.
16. Cruise Control. These cars have a few problems that happen with the cruise control. Test it, at any speed really. Just make sure it works.
17. I highly reccomend this to anyone, but more so any buyer looking at a modified Fbody. Take it to a shop that has HP tuners. Just have them scan the car. Dont even have to drive it. Have them look at the tune. Ask them if its orginal or modified, and if it looks way off (hacked). Then ask them to see what codes have been turned off. Its really easy to turn off the MIL (Malfunction Indictator Lamp) and have that code not pop up on you. Ask me how I know
18. Check the fluid levels. Very important. Check what fluid levels you can. If the car is 1-2 quarts low on engine oil, personally I would walk away. Thats all it takes to spin a bearing or do damage that might pop up later. If manual, spend 15 bucks and take it somewhere to get the transmission and rear end oil checked. Thats also a good time to check for leaks. Very good idea.
19. Wipers, windshield washers. May sound stupid, but do it. My washers dont work. Doesnt bother me enough to fix it as my TA never sees any kind of bad wheater. There is also the rear window defroster. Kinda hard to check that but its possible. If you live down south, dont worry as much.
20. Power seats. If the car has Lumbar seats, test them. I love my Lumbar support. It should squeeze your back really good and support you.
21. Manual cars - Clutch. Test that clutch. Make sure its not slipping, or on its way out. Look at the clutch fluid, if its black it hasnt been changed and needs to be. Same for you Auto guys, make sure it shifts well.
Guide to Buying a Fbody
1. Check ALL lights. This means somehow checking to see if the dash lights work at night/dark. Also, if the dash dimmer switch is working. Check DRL (Day Time Running Lamps) to see if they are burned out. Some have problems with these lights and it usually always points to corroison of the bulb socket, and needs to be replaced. And the unit sealed better. Check that third brake light also and turn signal's. In general, think of every possible light on the car. Check it because it might be a little nightmare waiting for you after you sign the papers. Make sure all the dash warning lights do a test flash upon turning key on. They should all flash.
2. Head lamp motors. Notorious for failing. Usually due to opening while snow or ice is on/by the doors of the lamps. Test these a good 5 times, flipping them up and down. They should go pretty quick!
3. Power windows. Also notorious for failing. Check the motors by bringing the window up and then back down. A very slow action of the window could mean that motor is on its way out and you'll be replacing.
4. Rear end pinion seal. Ide tell you to check it, but chances are it IS leaking. Better way to say it is, its seeping. But they do sometimes have an actual leak. If there is a leak, the under body will be covered with gear oil. If its seeping ( classified by me, as just a light coat/dusting of oil around the seal) then I would probably just bring it up to the seller. Everything to give you a little more power in the buy helps.
5. Mods. If your going to try and venture into a car with modifications already done, verify that they are in fact there. Things like tranny upgrades can sometimes be hard to find, but obvious things like headers and after market cat backs etc will be easy. Be careful buying modded cars.
6. Wiring. Look closey at the exposed wiring under the hood. It should look factory. If there are any visible added wires, be aware the installer might have buggered up other electronics. ||| Turn the heads light on, AND the fog lights as well. Then turn the radio on. Make sure it comes in clear. My car had after market fog lamps or something to do with the wiring and it has some interferance with this.
7. Bald tires up front. Usually means some heavy burnouts just occured. Look for loose rubber in the rear wheel wells. Make sure there is at the most, two different brands of tires. If there are three brands or more, say something about it and see if you can either get the price dropped or a tire change.
8. Test parking brake. Get yourself on a good hill and see if it holds. It should. Parking Brake pads are kinda a pain in the *** to change.
9. Wrinkles in body. These cars are picky as to where they get jacked up from. I have seen pictures of members here where certain body panels have wrinkled from a poor jacking postion choice. Should be obvious.
10. Power antenna. These fail often and will either stick in the raised or lower postion. When you turn the car off, the antenna should lower, and vise versa.
11. Trunk release. Mine still fights me. Make sure it 'pops' open on first try. Probably wont, but it still some power to be had with the money end of the purchase.
12. Key FOB. This is the device on the key ring. It should do all function that are labeled on the FOB.
13. Bubbles on T-tops. They will be there. Cant really say much and gain any buying power unless the owner stated the paint was FLAWLESS. They are on many, many Fbodies and can be anywhere on the t-top portion of the car.
14. True WS-6, True SS. This class of car can easily be mimicked with just a few purchases. It does happen sadly but you can look for RPO door codes. The RPO codes will be listed on the inside door panel under the door latch. ***Codes for TA and Firebirds are (Did a quick search here, thanks 9T8W66)
WS9 is the Formula conversion Pkg
W66 is the Formula Merchandise Pkg
Y82 is the Trans Am Merchandise Pkg
All the V8 cars carry the WS9 Code, To be a Formula or Trans Am it must have the coresponding code aswell.
WS9 + W66 = Formula
WS9 + Y82 = Trans Am
WS9 + W66 + WS6 = Formula WS6
WS9 + Y82 + WS6 = Trans Am WS6
For Camaro's, try this. Call SLP, (732) 349-2109. Also look for a SLP sticker, some had it, some didnt. Or call the dealership with your VIN number and they will tell you.
Look for these codes. They mean something.
If it is a WS-6 or SS, make sure it has the appropriate 17" wheels.
15. Test the speakers, they are not the best, but they shouldnt kackle at low volume levels either.
16. Cruise Control. These cars have a few problems that happen with the cruise control. Test it, at any speed really. Just make sure it works.
17. I highly reccomend this to anyone, but more so any buyer looking at a modified Fbody. Take it to a shop that has HP tuners. Just have them scan the car. Dont even have to drive it. Have them look at the tune. Ask them if its orginal or modified, and if it looks way off (hacked). Then ask them to see what codes have been turned off. Its really easy to turn off the MIL (Malfunction Indictator Lamp) and have that code not pop up on you. Ask me how I know
18. Check the fluid levels. Very important. Check what fluid levels you can. If the car is 1-2 quarts low on engine oil, personally I would walk away. Thats all it takes to spin a bearing or do damage that might pop up later. If manual, spend 15 bucks and take it somewhere to get the transmission and rear end oil checked. Thats also a good time to check for leaks. Very good idea.
19. Wipers, windshield washers. May sound stupid, but do it. My washers dont work. Doesnt bother me enough to fix it as my TA never sees any kind of bad wheater. There is also the rear window defroster. Kinda hard to check that but its possible. If you live down south, dont worry as much.
20. Power seats. If the car has Lumbar seats, test them. I love my Lumbar support. It should squeeze your back really good and support you.
21. Manual cars - Clutch. Test that clutch. Make sure its not slipping, or on its way out. Look at the clutch fluid, if its black it hasnt been changed and needs to be. Same for you Auto guys, make sure it shifts well.
11-09-2013, 08:26 AM
#4
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Hello everyone, first of all CONGRATULATIONS on your rides and the amount of knowledge you guys have on T/A, Camaros and Firebirds. For the longest time I have been wanting to own a sports car and finally the time is now, later on I'm going to look at a couple of Firebirds and hopefully I'll get to take one home.
I think the 1998-2002 Firebird is the perfect beginners sports car, not too expensive, awesome looks and for what I've read so far one of the top 10 engines of all time (the 3.8).
Hopefully someone out there gets a chance to see my post before I make a purchase later on, I would really appreciate some advice on what to look for and what to beware of on the 1998-2002 models, I know window and headlight motors are a common problem with these cars but what should I be looking for under the hood? I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks
I think the 1998-2002 Firebird is the perfect beginners sports car, not too expensive, awesome looks and for what I've read so far one of the top 10 engines of all time (the 3.8).
Hopefully someone out there gets a chance to see my post before I make a purchase later on, I would really appreciate some advice on what to look for and what to beware of on the 1998-2002 models, I know window and headlight motors are a common problem with these cars but what should I be looking for under the hood? I would really appreciate your advice. Thanks
Next, seriously don't waste your time and money buying a V6 car. The whole point of these cars is the V8 models. Being performance cars whats the point of buying one without the performance? Thats like buying non-alcoholic beer...
11-09-2013, 08:35 AM
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Thanks for the info, I'm looking at a 2001 Firebird (T tops, auto) with 140,000 miles. The owner told me AC and heater are ok and that there's no mechanical problems with the car other than the door locks not working from inside the car but they can be operated fine with the key remote, there're asking $4200, I'm gonna go look at it at 12:00 today. what do you guys think about the price?
11-09-2013, 10:30 AM
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I apologize for my n00bness... but I'm not interested in learning to drive a standard and don't really want to spend the 6 to 10k a V8 would cost me , this is also my first "pony" car as well as my daily driver. who knows maybe I will feel the need to upgrade but for now I feel this is what I need to get my feet wet. thanks for the advice and I will be posting some pictures later on. so how does the deal sound on the car in interested in?
11-09-2013, 11:13 AM
#7
I wouldn't buy a v6 bird if it came with Pamela Anderson in the back seat and box of condoms!, way too many troubles with all the bs driveby wire computers etc. Get a v8 that someone didn't mod, plenty out there yet. You'll be much happier trust me plus it will be worth something. V6 birds are worth next to nothing, If you do buy v6 get it super cheap no matter what someone tells you.
4200 for a v6 with 140k is INSANELY over priced. Betcha its got all kinds of bs troubles with the engine computer coils etc. The cars were a nightmare.
Tell ya what you do, wait 2 weeks and i'll bet the car is still there. 4200 they must be on crack!
I know where there is a 01 SS that needs a trans repair with 60k on it for 4500.
4200 for a v6....they must be smoking good sheeeet.
If you do buy it have the owner sign a paper declaring the car runs 100% no computer or drivability troubles AND have the car scanned for codes. A lot of dirty sheeeet goes on selling these cars.
4200 for a v6 with 140k is INSANELY over priced. Betcha its got all kinds of bs troubles with the engine computer coils etc. The cars were a nightmare.
Tell ya what you do, wait 2 weeks and i'll bet the car is still there. 4200 they must be on crack!
I know where there is a 01 SS that needs a trans repair with 60k on it for 4500.
4200 for a v6....they must be smoking good sheeeet.
If you do buy it have the owner sign a paper declaring the car runs 100% no computer or drivability troubles AND have the car scanned for codes. A lot of dirty sheeeet goes on selling these cars.
Last edited by RockinWs6; 11-09-2013 at 11:21 AM.
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11-09-2013, 11:41 AM
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Ws6 makes a good point I see very good condition v6s in the 3000 range texas and az may just be your area also learning standard is like having a high school diploma options are opened up
Good luck dont hesitate to cut people down on their prices theyll always ask for more
Cash TALKS
Good luck dont hesitate to cut people down on their prices theyll always ask for more
Cash TALKS
11-09-2013, 11:45 AM
#9
You can get well maintained v6 bodies for under 3k all day long. And after a few months you're gonna regret not saving up a bit more and getting a v8 instead. Why not start with a lt1 formula instead? You can also find them for a lot cheaper than ls1 counterparts.
11-09-2013, 12:03 PM
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+1 another good point
11-09-2013, 01:14 PM
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so I went to see it, the car runs good and nothing is wrong with the body, it doesn't seem to have anything wrong mechanically. the only bads are the traditional cracked dashboard and window motor on the passenger side doesn't go down. they went down to $3000
11-09-2013, 02:28 PM
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The market on the 98+ V6 has fallen out a year and a half ago you where lucky to find one in good shape around 4k now there 3k. but honestly there are a lot of people on here that say "just get a v8" (I would suggest checking out fullthrottlev6.com if you don't feel like being constantly berated by those v6 haters), me I like to see what I can get out of the budget friendly option, not everyone has 7-10k to drop and has to choose the v6 to get the better looking front end.
the "biggest" issues that plague both v6 and v8 are:
1. Window Motors
2. Headlight Motor Gears
anything body related or interior related can happen to either version.
the V6's biggest point of failure is the intake manifold gaskets, they are pretty rock solid motors and as for the DBW, in my opinion it's one of the best out there, it still feels like a "real" gas pedal, not like the DBW on my dads 03 sierra 2500hd.
that said, gas mileage is better and insurance is cheaper on the V6 which some people need to make it a viable option for a DD, but should you manage to blow up the motor you always have the option of doing an LM7 rebuild and dropping it in for about 3k if you do the work yourself.
a properly tuned up v6 can still be plenty of "fun" to drive despite what the haters on here have to say.
the "biggest" issues that plague both v6 and v8 are:
1. Window Motors
2. Headlight Motor Gears
anything body related or interior related can happen to either version.
the V6's biggest point of failure is the intake manifold gaskets, they are pretty rock solid motors and as for the DBW, in my opinion it's one of the best out there, it still feels like a "real" gas pedal, not like the DBW on my dads 03 sierra 2500hd.
that said, gas mileage is better and insurance is cheaper on the V6 which some people need to make it a viable option for a DD, but should you manage to blow up the motor you always have the option of doing an LM7 rebuild and dropping it in for about 3k if you do the work yourself.
a properly tuned up v6 can still be plenty of "fun" to drive despite what the haters on here have to say.
11-09-2013, 04:55 PM
#14
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The market on the 98+ V6 has fallen out a year and a half ago you where lucky to find one in good shape around 4k now there 3k. but honestly there are a lot of people on here that say "just get a v8" (I would suggest checking out fullthrottlev6.com if you don't feel like being constantly berated by those v6 haters), me I like to see what I can get out of the budget friendly option, not everyone has 7-10k to drop and has to choose the v6 to get the better looking front end.
the "biggest" issues that plague both v6 and v8 are:
1. Window Motors
2. Headlight Motor Gears
anything body related or interior related can happen to either version.
the V6's biggest point of failure is the intake manifold gaskets, they are pretty rock solid motors and as for the DBW, in my opinion it's one of the best out there, it still feels like a "real" gas pedal, not like the DBW on my dads 03 sierra 2500hd.
that said, gas mileage is better and insurance is cheaper on the V6 which some people need to make it a viable option for a DD, but should you manage to blow up the motor you always have the option of doing an LM7 rebuild and dropping it in for about 3k if you do the work yourself.
a properly tuned up v6 can still be plenty of "fun" to drive despite what the haters on here have to say.
the "biggest" issues that plague both v6 and v8 are:
1. Window Motors
2. Headlight Motor Gears
anything body related or interior related can happen to either version.
the V6's biggest point of failure is the intake manifold gaskets, they are pretty rock solid motors and as for the DBW, in my opinion it's one of the best out there, it still feels like a "real" gas pedal, not like the DBW on my dads 03 sierra 2500hd.
that said, gas mileage is better and insurance is cheaper on the V6 which some people need to make it a viable option for a DD, but should you manage to blow up the motor you always have the option of doing an LM7 rebuild and dropping it in for about 3k if you do the work yourself.
a properly tuned up v6 can still be plenty of "fun" to drive despite what the haters on here have to say.
We're being realistic as most of us have been around the block and driven a few cars. Ive driven plenty of V6 fbodies and Id honestly own something else, seriously. Its a performance car without the performance (and im not just talking about acceleration). You pay the premium for insurance and gas mileage, yet get nothing in return for performance.
OP, do yourself a big favor and get a V8 car if you want an fbody, its WELL worth it, TRUST US!
11-09-2013, 05:23 PM
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^^^^^^^^^ I think you missed the biggest part of my point, NOT EVERYONE HAS the 7-10 thousand it takes to get into a decent ls1 f-body, hell even most lt1 f-bodies in the 3-4k price range are ragged out, if you don't have the money to buy the ls1 car (some of us can't do afford car payments and have to buy with the cash from the sale of are last car). if you don't have the cash for an ls1 (in decent shape) then I think the v6 is just fine and as for insurance I went from a 94 4 door accord (sedans are amongst the cheapest to insure) to a 99 v6 bird and my insurance rate went practically unchanged, I don't even want to think what it would be like with a six speed ls1.
11-09-2013, 05:42 PM
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Its your choice if your happy with it get the firebird not a bad car still gets from point A to point B
its not like ANY OF THESE GUYS are buying the car for you or gonna be driving it with that said good luck on your finds
its not like ANY OF THESE GUYS are buying the car for you or gonna be driving it with that said good luck on your finds
11-09-2013, 06:38 PM
#20
^^^^^^^^^ I think you missed the biggest part of my point, NOT EVERYONE HAS the 7-10 thousand it takes to get into a decent ls1 f-body, hell even most lt1 f-bodies in the 3-4k price range are ragged out, if you don't have the money to buy the ls1 car (some of us can't do afford car payments and have to buy with the cash from the sale of are last car). if you don't have the cash for an ls1 (in decent shape) then I think the v6 is just fine and as for insurance I went from a 94 4 door accord (sedans are amongst the cheapest to insure) to a 99 v6 bird and my insurance rate went practically unchanged, I don't even want to think what it would be like with a six speed ls1.
As far as gas goes, they will both suck. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but no fbody is made to get good gas mileage. Yes, they can get better mpg than a srt10 truck, but that doesn't mean they are gas savers. Throw me the best mpg a fbody has ever gotten, and i bet i can find a more reliable and cheaper car that can top it.
Value on the car will depend on wether the buyer thinks its worth saving around $1 or 2k on a car that is worth next to nothing. Or save up a bit more, and buy a much better car which you won't regret buying after a few months.
Nothing wrong with a v6 fbody if you only want looks and won't ever care about performance (unless used as a roller). But i don't understand why people try to validate buying a v6 with non-reasonable excuses.
This last part is pure opinion, but i would really suggest for you to not settle with less than what you want OP. Your first post made it seem like you've been interested in fbodies for a long time and have done some research on them. And i can almost assure you that you'll be disappointed with a v6 if its not what you are truly looking for.