Window motor myths & truths
07-13-2014, 10:22 PM
#1
Window motor myths & truths These questions and answers are from a discussion where forums member wssix99 gives us the straight dope on window motor issues and fixes (THANKS wssix99!)
When selecting up or down, it only goes a few inches and stops. After giving it a minute, I select it again and it will go another few inches. Almost like it has to recharge a little. I'm pretty sure the motor may be toast but it is a fairly new motor that was replaced by the old owner for the same issue. So I'm thinking there is possibly something else which may cause this.
This is a classic failure of the thermal resistor inside the motor. (Time to replace the motor.) The thermal resistor cuts off the motor when it senses resistance, typically once the window is all the way up or all the way down. As it wears out and/or gets corroded and/or gets contaminated, it gets to sensitive and the normal resistance of the glass moving will cause it to cut off prematurely.
Letting the motor rest for a few minutes, will allow the resistor to cool off a bit to the point where you can move the window a little bit more. Pushing or pulling on the glass may give it enough "help" so the glass will move further in between times where the resistor craps out on you.
You'll want to address this ASAP, because the problem gets (quickly) progressively worse.
It sounds like this is a problem with Firebirds (and Camaros). I wonder if there may be some type of recall with GM. In the mean time, how did you go about rewiring the passenger side?
The motor functions as designed. The part was first put on GM cars in the '60's, lived on in the parts bin, and made its way on to our cars. So, you are getting 1960 motor performance in your 98-02 car.
Dorman has created an all-new motor with an updated design that performs MUCH better than the OEM unit. So, you'll want to get the new updated design for your replacements. Don't be tempted to get the "original" part - it's been out of production for a long time and odds are that you'll purchase a reman - even if its marketed as "new." This site is full of posts where our members have installed "new" OEM motors to have them go belly-up right out of the box.
(The Dorman motor is number 742-101, same for L & R)
You'll also want to be sure to read up on the "shbox method" ( http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html ) for changing the motors. It will make the job MUCH easier and will do less damage to the door. Changing the motor with GM's factory procedure puts a lot of stress on the regulator rivet holes and can do huge $$$ damage to the door.
Unless you rewire the passenger window with the autotrix fix both motors have a tendency to burn up fast especially if your using them at the same time.
This is completely false and untrue. Autotrix doesn't even make this claim. (... because it is not true.) There is a bunch of internet vodoo out there regarding these motors and the Autotrix kits have risen in the folklore to be something that they aren't.
The ONLY thing Autotrix kits do is reduce the normal voltage drop that the motors see. This makes a bad motor look better than it really is.
There is nothing wrong with the circuitry in the cars. If there was, there would have been problems with cars coming from the factory. (that didn't happen)
IMO - Now that the new motor design is widely available, with a lifetime warranty, relay kits are a waste of money.
When selecting up or down, it only goes a few inches and stops. After giving it a minute, I select it again and it will go another few inches. Almost like it has to recharge a little. I'm pretty sure the motor may be toast but it is a fairly new motor that was replaced by the old owner for the same issue. So I'm thinking there is possibly something else which may cause this.
This is a classic failure of the thermal resistor inside the motor. (Time to replace the motor.) The thermal resistor cuts off the motor when it senses resistance, typically once the window is all the way up or all the way down. As it wears out and/or gets corroded and/or gets contaminated, it gets to sensitive and the normal resistance of the glass moving will cause it to cut off prematurely.
Letting the motor rest for a few minutes, will allow the resistor to cool off a bit to the point where you can move the window a little bit more. Pushing or pulling on the glass may give it enough "help" so the glass will move further in between times where the resistor craps out on you.
You'll want to address this ASAP, because the problem gets (quickly) progressively worse.
It sounds like this is a problem with Firebirds (and Camaros). I wonder if there may be some type of recall with GM. In the mean time, how did you go about rewiring the passenger side?
The motor functions as designed. The part was first put on GM cars in the '60's, lived on in the parts bin, and made its way on to our cars. So, you are getting 1960 motor performance in your 98-02 car.
Dorman has created an all-new motor with an updated design that performs MUCH better than the OEM unit. So, you'll want to get the new updated design for your replacements. Don't be tempted to get the "original" part - it's been out of production for a long time and odds are that you'll purchase a reman - even if its marketed as "new." This site is full of posts where our members have installed "new" OEM motors to have them go belly-up right out of the box.
(The Dorman motor is number 742-101, same for L & R)
You'll also want to be sure to read up on the "shbox method" ( http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html ) for changing the motors. It will make the job MUCH easier and will do less damage to the door. Changing the motor with GM's factory procedure puts a lot of stress on the regulator rivet holes and can do huge $$$ damage to the door.
Unless you rewire the passenger window with the autotrix fix both motors have a tendency to burn up fast especially if your using them at the same time.
This is completely false and untrue. Autotrix doesn't even make this claim. (... because it is not true.) There is a bunch of internet vodoo out there regarding these motors and the Autotrix kits have risen in the folklore to be something that they aren't.
The ONLY thing Autotrix kits do is reduce the normal voltage drop that the motors see. This makes a bad motor look better than it really is.
There is nothing wrong with the circuitry in the cars. If there was, there would have been problems with cars coming from the factory. (that didn't happen)
IMO - Now that the new motor design is widely available, with a lifetime warranty, relay kits are a waste of money.
07-14-2014, 02:00 PM
#2
We see a lot of discussion on the motors in the General Maintenance section.
MODES OF FAILURE:
- Thermal resistor failure. <see above>
- Another common mode of failure is the flat-line, where the motor flat out dies. Some have reported that the poor sealing on the old motors allows water to get in to the motor and corrode the insides. Some people have had success hitting the inside door panel with a rubber mallet to break off this rust and allow the motor to get going again. (Do this at your own risk!)
- Sometimes, it's just time and the motor will flat-line completely with no hope of any resuscitation.
AFTERMARKET OPTIONS:
- As noted above, the new Doorman motor design seems to be the way to go.
- Electric Life also offers an aftermarket option, but I had a bad experience with that one, also: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...ment-over.html
OTHER WINDOW AGONY:
- When the motor is good but the window won't go up, this is commonly the cause: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html
- When the window glass flops around in the door and moves freely side-to-side, this is the common culprit:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...dow-guide.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...rt-number.html
ADJUSTMENT GUIDES:
- shbox has some great guides on door adjustment to cure the other common window ills and best method for window motor installation:
http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html
http://shbox.com/1/adj_window.html
MODES OF FAILURE:
- Thermal resistor failure. <see above>
- Another common mode of failure is the flat-line, where the motor flat out dies. Some have reported that the poor sealing on the old motors allows water to get in to the motor and corrode the insides. Some people have had success hitting the inside door panel with a rubber mallet to break off this rust and allow the motor to get going again. (Do this at your own risk!)
- Sometimes, it's just time and the motor will flat-line completely with no hope of any resuscitation.
AFTERMARKET OPTIONS:
- As noted above, the new Doorman motor design seems to be the way to go.
- Electric Life also offers an aftermarket option, but I had a bad experience with that one, also: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...ment-over.html
OTHER WINDOW AGONY:
- When the motor is good but the window won't go up, this is commonly the cause: https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...-included.html
- When the window glass flops around in the door and moves freely side-to-side, this is the common culprit:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...dow-guide.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/general-m...rt-number.html
ADJUSTMENT GUIDES:
- shbox has some great guides on door adjustment to cure the other common window ills and best method for window motor installation:
http://shbox.com/page/windowmotor.html
http://shbox.com/1/adj_window.html
07-10-2015, 10:18 AM
#3
WARNING - WARNING - WARNING
Update - July 2015 - It appears that Dorman has substituted their 742-101 motor back with the old design. So far, we have not been able to locate who has picked up the truly new design or found a vendor.
History - Prior to Dorman selling the new design, it was sold as a Duralast. Dorman picked it up from them and Duralast dropped it. It's now MIA.
Update - July 2015 - It appears that Dorman has substituted their 742-101 motor back with the old design. So far, we have not been able to locate who has picked up the truly new design or found a vendor.
History - Prior to Dorman selling the new design, it was sold as a Duralast. Dorman picked it up from them and Duralast dropped it. It's now MIA.
07-20-2015, 01:57 PM
#4
WARNING - WARNING - WARNING
Update - July 2015 - It appears that Dorman has substituted their 742-101 motor back with the old design. So far, we have not been able to locate who has picked up the truly new design or found a vendor.
History - Prior to Dorman selling the new design, it was sold as a Duralast. Dorman picked it up from them and Duralast dropped it. It's now MIA.
Update - July 2015 - It appears that Dorman has substituted their 742-101 motor back with the old design. So far, we have not been able to locate who has picked up the truly new design or found a vendor.
History - Prior to Dorman selling the new design, it was sold as a Duralast. Dorman picked it up from them and Duralast dropped it. It's now MIA.
07-20-2015, 02:16 PM
#7
This thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...indow-fix.html
BTW - Looking at the pictures that YearOne has for a new AC Delco motor, it appears that there may be another version out there that looks like the OEM model but with some upgraded seals: https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982...33#prettyPhoto[part]/0/
BTW - Looking at the pictures that YearOne has for a new AC Delco motor, it appears that there may be another version out there that looks like the OEM model but with some upgraded seals: https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982...33#prettyPhoto[part]/0/
Trending Topics
07-20-2015, 03:05 PM
#8
This thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...indow-fix.html
BTW - Looking at the pictures that YearOne has for a new AC Delco motor, it appears that there may be another version out there that looks like the OEM model but with some upgraded seals: https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982...33#prettyPhoto[part]/0/
BTW - Looking at the pictures that YearOne has for a new AC Delco motor, it appears that there may be another version out there that looks like the OEM model but with some upgraded seals: https://www.yearone.com/Product/1982...33#prettyPhoto[part]/0/
07-22-2015, 12:42 PM
#12
Looks like the original design with a lot of new content. I wonder if the machinery for these went from Mexico to China and the price (cheap) was just too good for Dorman to turn away from?
Thanks for posting. It looks like a new motor but the original design/seals.
Thanks for posting. It looks like a new motor but the original design/seals.
07-22-2015, 03:59 PM
#14
Unknown. We need a guinea pig and 3 years time to find out the answer.
They are the old design but appear to be a new part from a new manufacturing facility.
We know the old parts are bad and the new design was good. This "new" old design is still TBD.
They are the old design but appear to be a new part from a new manufacturing facility.
We know the old parts are bad and the new design was good. This "new" old design is still TBD.
07-28-2015, 02:03 PM
#16
I think the latest batches of motors are coming from outfits like this: http://www.leader-dcgearmotor.com/pr...e-1132190.html
Can anyone read Chinese?
Still looking for who makes the updated design...
Can anyone read Chinese?
Still looking for who makes the updated design...
07-29-2015, 09:56 PM
#17
I think the latest batches of motors are coming from outfits like this: http://www.leader-dcgearmotor.com/pr...e-1132190.html
Can anyone read Chinese?
Still looking for who makes the updated design...
Can anyone read Chinese?
Still looking for who makes the updated design...
07-29-2015, 10:19 PM
#18
I was just kidding. 
I stumbled on to a company called Standard Motor Products: http://www.smpcorp.com/en
They are the type of conglomerate that could be behind this kind of conspiracy, but I haven't seen anything to indicate any of their companies ever carried the new design. ACI, one of their companies, seems to carry and supply reman versions of the original designs.
I stumbled on to a company called Standard Motor Products: http://www.smpcorp.com/en
They are the type of conglomerate that could be behind this kind of conspiracy, but I haven't seen anything to indicate any of their companies ever carried the new design. ACI, one of their companies, seems to carry and supply reman versions of the original designs.
