Nicholas_Bostaph

I've owned my 2006 GP GXP for almost a year now and am thankful to finally have paid off enough to get rid of it; Absolutely horrible car. To save money, I was thinking of looking for a 98-02 V6 firebird, both for lower car payments and for lower fuel costs. I never had a problem with my 99 TA or 2002 Firehawk, and I was always so comfortable driving them.

Anyway, I was hoping someone could give me an idea of what differences there were between the TA and the firebird, other than the obvious power issue. From a real-world perspective. I guess my major questions are:

• What's the difference in suspension systems? Will a firebird ride similar to my T/A, or is there a really big difference?
• What's the fuel economy like? I know what the EPA estimated number is, but I was looking for something a little more realistic. My Hawk used to get around 19-21 depending on time of year.
• What else is different, besides the engine, suspension, and external body panels? Any major differences in the interior? Did firebirds still offer the 10 speaker monsoon system?

Thanks.

Smoke Panther

iTrader: (10)

some of the components are different, but the net outcome is the same, as far as ride goes
Same, just on lower-grade gas..you can safely use regular gas with them
TAs more commonly have leather, while most Firebirds are cloth, the speedo only goes up to 120, and there's no cupholder in the passenger door. Other than that, they're the same
it's possible to get the monsoon system in a Firebird

Nicholas_Bostaph

Thanks Smoke Panther, that was very helpful. Do V6 firebirds really only get the same gas mileage as the LS1s?

I've been looking around a bit and all I've been able to find is cloth interior. Did they not offer leather with firebirds, or was it just rarely selected as an option?

NC01TA

Leather just isn't what people are looking for or expecting when they want a cheaper type car. If it was even offered it would be horribly expensive in relation to what you are buying. I rented a 6 cylinder Camaro for two weeks back in 2001 and it really isn't that different overall. If I remember right the HP was rated at 200 and it wasn't too bad. The ride was maybe a little better but not by much, and the gas mileage really wasn't that different either compared to my '96 LT1 Formula and '01 LS1 T/A. It seems surprising to say these things but that was my experience anyway, and I've owned these F-bodies for over 12 years now. If you want the true speed then maybe it would be best to stick with the V8 since the gas issue really isn't that much of a factor. Good luck with your search!

1 Bad Ass Formula

iTrader: (7)

I think if you'd be switching from a GP GXP you should do things the right way and get the Trans Am, or if you like the exterior of the V6 Firebirds but want the V8 engine buy a Formula.

JD_AMG

Honestly I don't see the appeal of a owning a V6 muscle car, its like buying non-alcoholic beer, whats the point?
Your paying the premium insurance rates, and gas mileage, but not getting the performance or sound.
I've never been in a V6 firebird, but I have been in a couple V6 Camaros. I personally don't like the way they drive, it feels sloppy and fat even compared to a Z28, and even more so to a SS or WS6.
Look into a nice sports sedan like a CTS, much better buy IMO and WAY more fun to drive.

DevilDougWS6

iTrader: (8)

whats wrong with GPs? that 3800 s/c can be a pretty stout little motor with very little modification. i agree that its not quite a muscle car but was never intended to be. saying a grand prix is a muscle car is like saying civics are built for racing. its a family sedan, however GM did get it right with the new G8...that thing is bad ***.

snake charmer

iTrader: (118)

a suprecharfe anytihng is good . but a na v6 in a heavy car is not the best at saving gas . a lightweight 4cyl is a good gas saver . why sacrifice the hp for a few more miles to the gallon ?

The Batman

iTrader: (4)

his grand prix is a gxp model so hes got a v8
but im with you...whats so bad about them, i like them


boneville ssei was another cool sedan

DevilDougWS6

iTrader: (8)

oh yeah i forgot about the new 5.3L with DOD.

bottlefed98

iTrader: (2)

the V6 birds get worse mileage than a LS1 .. at least from what ive seen..

FirebirdPhil

iTrader: (8)

If I'm light on the pedal, I'll get 21 city, 30-33 highway. Thats with full intake and catback. I'd suggest this car to anyone. If it as fast as an LS1 or LT1? Oh hell no. But is it a good, reliable car? Hell yes. Great handling, rides smooth, decent MPGs. Oh, and I see where someone mentioned insurance rates. V6 cars are MUCH cheaper than V8s. Then again that may be true for me because I'm 19.

ads_99ta

yeah whats wrong with a GP GXP? 300+ hp sounds great with FWD! i've driven and ridden in a couple V6 birds, you have almost the same downsides as a TA but without the LS1 such as leaky t-tops, (if equipped) headlight motors, turn signals going out, and other things people complain about with these cars like the hump for the catalytic converter on the floor in the passenger side, and it seemed to me that it rode just as rough as a TA. not trying to slam the V6 bird its not a bad car at all but there are better choices if you want to save money. and you've owned 2 LS1 powered birds in the past, a V6 bird won't feel right. good luck on your choice.

this is my experience with the MPG crap both of these drives were 2000 mile trips from california to indiana, and the gas mileage difference seems negligible when you consider how much more power the LS1 makes
99 TA A4 (with stock LS1) 26 mpg
06 GP 3.8 A4 (same engine in the V6 bird) 28 mpg

Nicholas_Bostaph

Thanks for all the thoughts, guys. Just to clarify:



Probably a bad analogy for me. I hate drugs (alcohol included), so if I liked the taste of beer I'd get all the benefits and none of the downsides.

Anyway, I used to agree with you, and still do to a point. But I seem to place a lot more importance one both appearance and handling/feel than others, and less importance on power. I hate my GXP, and so would like a new car. I'm also in danger of foreclosure on my house so I need something cheap. The first thing that popped into my mind when I thought of a car that I wasn't miserable driving was what I owned for 90% of my driving life: an F-body ('91 Z28, '98 TA, '02 Firehawk). And the V6 model lets me still cut my car payment in half and save a little money in gas and insurance.

My dream car is still going to be a Tesla Whitestar or Bluestar, which is what I was planning on waiting for, but I just can’t stand my GXP any longer and the Whitestar is still a minimum of two years away.




Please see above.




Perhaps I'm lucky, by I've never experienced any of those problems with my TAs. Granted, I never had one over 70k miles, but both of my cars were super tight. I was under the impression that GM had worked all those problems out.

As for the GXP, I've been planning on writing a full review, but the sheer length it would need to be is daunting. For the most part there's not anything major I can point to and say "This makes me absolutely hate it." However, there are a thousand little things. Any one of these would just make me like the car a bit less. Any three would make me unsure of the car. The list of 50 or so I've come up with makes me miserable.

To list just a few of the more important ones off the top of my head (apologies in advance to people who own and still like their GP GXP):


1) The car drives like an SUV. While others might describe the TA as 'rough', I describe it as 'tight' and 'comfortable'. In my GXP body roll is ridiculous and the wheels break loose at 80% the speed my TAs used to (despite the GXP having much more expensive tires). When I turn the car responds, but there's a few hundred ms delay before I feel it because the suspension is so soft and loose, so it actually makes me seasick to drive. Every day I drive twisty back roads up and down hills to get to work, and where I used to enjoy myself immensely in my TA I now find myself literally cringing while driving; I sing along to the radio just to keep from grating my teeth (yes, I really do). If this thing has a 'racing' suspension (like the marketing says time and again) then I'm a purple dragon named Bob.

2) With the seat down as far as it can go, and the back tilted so I feel like I'm piloting the space shuttle, my head just barely doesn't rub against the ceiling. However, my hair gets flattened to my head, but only half; the other half has room because of the sunroof. So every morning I get in my car with my hair still drying, and every morning I arrive at work with half my hair spiked, like it's supposed to be, and the other half flattened, looking ridiculously unprofessional and just really really stupid for the rest of the day. If I were 6'8" I might understand it. I'm 5'11"; according to the 2000 census over 30% of the US population is taller than me. Who would design a 'family' type car to exclude 30% of its potential customers?

3) Every time I get in my car I sit down, lift my body to yank my jeans to a more comfortable position so they're not riding up, get comfortable in my seat, pull the emergency brake, shift into gear, and take off. However, some genius decided to make the emergency brake on the GXP a foot pedal, so now I have to add in a step of using my foot to relieve the brake, which requires enough force to lift my body (I'm light), and that requires me to shift my jeans again and get comfortable again. Little thing, but annoying; especially since I work two jobs right now and am constantly running late. I know some people may like the foot break, but of the 8 people I've asked they all had the same preference as me, so it makes me wonder if GM really polled customer opinions before making that decision.

4) There's no rear hatch. Instead there's a relatively small rear window with limited visibility. This wouldn't be much of a problem except that when I turn to check my blind spot, which I could see easily through my TA's huge side window, all I see in my GXP is a gigantic column that separates the front seat from the back. I realize this is a four-seater and the column needs to be there, but it almost seems like they went out of their way to make it overly dangerous; one inch forward or backward, or one inch thinner, would be a huge help. This makes me feel unsafe every time I drive on a 2+ lane road.

5) Comfort. The seats don't hug and hold you like my TA's did. The seats aren't nearly as comfortable as my TA's were. The center console is so far back I can't rest my elbow there and still reach the wheel while driving, so I have no way to stabilize myself; I tend to drive with my right hand outstretched and pressing against the passenger seat now (or drive really slow). The air vents direct air too harshly so I need to run my AC/heat stronger and longer than normal since I have them all blowing away from me. Because I have my seat so far up to deal with item 2 it's nearly impossible to get in and out of the car without being extremely careful, and even then likely bumping something. The climate control is slooooow; once you redirect air it takes 5-10 seconds for the air to actually start going the new route. The sunroof lets in way less light than the T-tops and is ill-positioned; my car feels dark and dungeon-like. I feel like I’m riding 30 feet up in the air instead of close to the road, and my seat doesn’t go down anymore.

6) User friendliness. The dual climate control doesn't have a ****, so I often find myself spending 30 seconds pressing an up or down button 30 times (only 2/3 are registered) to change from AC to heat. The head unit displays too few characters, so reading what you're listening to takes a huge amount of time directing your attention away from the road. There is no button to scroll through the radio tag information faster (the 'info' button just brings up an error) and the text often skips part of the title/artist. The 'random' function on the head unit jumps from CD to CD, and I could find no way to turn it on just for the current disc. There's no Aux input jack for my iPhone. There're less speakers than my TA, so I can't design as good of an aftermarket system, and the ugly speaker in the center of the dash makes music sound screechy and painful at even moderate volumes. The DIC can show only one piece of information at a time, while there are several important readings in there that really should have their own gauge on the dash. There's no third cup holder like my TA had, so when I get a drink I have to move either my wallet or my phone to free one up. The back seats aren't really bucket seats, so whereas my two CD binders would sit comfortably in one back seat never moving in my TA, they fly all over the place in the GXP and usually end up on the floor and out of reach.



As I said, it's just a ton of little things, but I could go on like this for hours. It's not just that it's a different car than my TAs; I was decently happy driving my '98 GTP and one or two friends' cars I've borrowed on occasion. I think this car was just designed really poorly, and little $20 fixes that could have saved the driver hours of annoyance/suffering were never considered by an either incompetent or understaffed/overworked design team. Being part of the latter myself I understand how it could happen, so I’m not blaming them specifically, but some of the design elements on this car are unforgivable in my opinion.

Scoggin Dickey

iTrader: (34)

I drive my girlfriends 02 V6 firebird regularly when we go places. I love the car. It's VERY nice, it has two tone leather and monsoon so those options are definitely out there. It gets 21-22 in town and 29-32 on the highway. It's a nice car, it drives great, no mechanical problems, good gas mileage, and it's cheaper on insurance. Don't bother trying to justify why you are making this decision to people who don't understand, it's your decision to make and it's no one else's business to tell you it's a bad one just because it isn't what they would do. I like the car and won't deny it to anyone. I have a girl to own it so I have an excuse to drive one though

The best part is that while it saves a lot of money in many ways, but it is still a very familiar feeling car to drive since I have spent more time driving V8 f-bodies than all other cars combined

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

My 1993 has the 10 speaker option (not monsoon that year), and mines a Formula

Otherwise it should be easy to simply get all the interior stuff and have it setup for it. I have an aftermarket deck and love how it sounds.

If you get an M6 LT/LS bird, you can get pretty damn good gas mileage. Of course, a V6 M5 will give really good mileage as well. Not sure which would be better though, the 3.4 or 3.8 *shrug*.

I'd get a 3.8 and drop the supercharger bits off the V8 Supercharged FWD cars

JD_AMG

Then you are really looking in the wrong direction. The soft, sloppy suspension combined with the skinny tires and solid rear axle are about as bad as you can get when it comes to feel, and leave you with a lot to desire in handling...
If you are really dead set on a firebird I would highly suggest getting a Formula, plus atleast 17X9" wheels (17/40/275 tires all around) and most importantly Koni shocks. Then if you want more handling look into strano swaybars and springs along with an adjustable panhard bar to recenter the rear after lowering. (think heavier C5 Z06 after these mods...)

Why a Telsa??? Is it the electric motor that attracts you? I much rather have an Elise or Aerial Atom at a fraction of the cost...

Honestly if I were you I would go out and test drive some sports sedans like the G8, CTS, BMWs, G35s etc. Insurance should be lower than the firebird, and the cars will be much more enjoyable and comfortable to drive.
I know what its like to drive on twisty roads everyday (had to for work a long time ago, roughly 14 miles of nothing but turns of every type, dips, hills, etc etc, it was line a mini-nurburgring seriously). From my experiences with V6 camaros I wouldn't want to drive a V6 fbody on those roads, they are too unforgiving and sloppy. My dad's CTS in comparison feels leaps and bounds better in every way.

black_phoenix

iTrader: (27)

v6 gas mileage isnt better than ls1... i owned a v6 before and know...

White94Bird

iTrader: (21)

i own a V6 3.4 and i get 25mpg in city (with a VERY light foot) and idk bout highway..
i got the upgraded sound in mine too. it rides ok.. but
TO tell the the truth yall are right go and get the ls1 its alot more fun and still good highway mpg...and i wish i had the ls1 personally

ghardester

I had a new '97 V-6 Firebird in Bright Green Metalic hardtop. Very pretty and a fine car. It had the 2.73 rear end and wasn't real quick but was a real freeway cruiser.

Traded in for a new '01 V-6 Navy Blue Metalic Firebird with T-tops, Monsoon, and the V-6 performance package that had quicker steering gear, dual outlet exhaust and low geared Thorsen limited slip rear end. I think the gearing was 3.42. Lower than my WS6 and not a freeway friendly car at all. But I live on the back roads. Quick as hell up to a point, for a V-6. Loved it until I saw my current WS6 on a lot with only 14k miles, and i traded that V-6 plus $14k and drove off.

The V-6's are nice cars, but once you have the LS1 you will wonder what took you so long to trade up.

I see no real change in gas mileage that can't be explained by my right foot. Maybe 2-3 mpg.

My insurance went DOWN from the '01 V-6 to the '02 WS6. I have no idea why and was't about to ask.