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An Accord V6 and the end of dreams...

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Old 01-21-2017, 01:16 AM   #41
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Meh, I rented a new Accord a month ago. The car had 4,000 on the clock and it ticked like a time bomb. The sport package is the least geeky version of the car but you can only polish a jelly bean so much. Sorry Honda's don't impress me......

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Old 01-21-2017, 01:43 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by justin455
1.)Cars get objectively better with newer technology

2.)Cars being better than others all depends on what you want out of them

3.)Trilkb likes to argue

Did I get everything?
4) SouthernRex's F-body smokes everything
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:49 AM   #43
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I have some time, so I'll give it another shot.

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Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
What I meant when I said that quote was this...until you've owned a Honda you have no idea the difference in reliability and fit/finish vs a gm fbody (and in my mind, truthfully most gm cars lol). Thats how i was saying they are better, was kind of a partial thought. You sacrifice ALOT of comfort and quality and reliability with a fbody. The OP is clearly having his first experience with this and likely never cared or noticed before. That's why I say until people own one, they really don't know what they are missing in terms of "dishwasher-like reliabity". It's the most unconnected point a to point b experience you can have, but it's reliable and most interior features work day in and day out.
The wife and I did in fact own a '94 Toyota as one of our daily drivers from '97 until '04, so I speak from personal experience when I say that it wasn't anything remarkable compared to the various GM models I've owned from that general era (including various models from Buick/Pontiac/Chevy from 1988-2002.) It had its share of mechanical failures and quirks, starting around ~60k miles and getting worse as it reached 100k and above. At ~105k it left me stranded with catastrophic trans failure on a highway trip, for example. Interior fit and finish wasn't anything stellar either (broken interior door handle and HVAC control levers around ~80-90k miles, etc.)

My '02 Z28 was my daily driver from around 2007 until 2014, sold with about 110k miles. Never once did it leave me stranded, and the only mechanical failures were a water pump and alternator in the 95k mileage range when the car was about a decade old (and both gave me plenty of warning.) For the record, it only ate ONE power window motor in 12 years/110k miles. The interior did not fall apart (because I don't allow rabid cats to live inside my vehicles) and all features and controls worked just fine.

While it's safe to say that F-bodies were certainly not the king of fit and finish for their era, it's ridiculous to imply that they weren't reliable transportation when well maintained and not driven like a stolen car. And what you give up in fit and finish is more than compensated with gobs of power compared to anything else in their price range when new - and such is the very point of an affordable performance car. In other words, they were far from crap and, notwithstanding individual preferences, were arguably the best at what they were intended to be.

At this point, they are all 15-20 years old and most have had multiple owners including younger males who have beat them hard and often neglected certain maintenance. I won't argue the fact that many examples are now in sad shape, but as someone who owned one that was daily driven into the 6-figure mileage/12 year old age range, I can tell you first hand that it was not crap in terms of reliability.

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Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
just some sort of communication problem.
You simply said that GM cars were crap compared to Honda and Toyota, I disagreed and gave specific considerations. Then you became more specific about what aspects you thought were crap, and stated that, in fact, ALL cars in this MSRP range represented some sort of trade off. To which I agree with the latter, meaning that either could technically be called crap or great depending on your priorities. For example, I think a 2002 RSX is crap as a "sporty coupe" compared to a 2002 Z28 which could be had for only ~$2k more when new with an additional 200hp. I'll take the extra power for my money, in exchange for interior panels that might not fit as tightly and be a harder type of plastic. As for basic reliability, I don't see how that RSX could have been drastically more reliable than my '02 Z28 (which had been free from any major drama up to the point I sold it at 12 years old.)

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My logic is if you aren't happy with people comparing brand new civics and gms and whatever the **** else, to 98-02 cars, why are we letting it be said that a new v6 accord can beat a lt1 car? Why aren't we keeping that on the same level of year vs year?
I agree, but I wasn't the one making that comparison.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:21 AM   #44
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Good enough for me lol.

I think Hondas/acura are a bit better then toyota when it comes to being reliable and build quality. my lexus es300 wasn't too great. I've never had an fbody leave me stranded either, they always seem to work fine, even the 2 high mileage lt1s I've owned. But stupid **** like the hatch plastic trim pieces not fitting right anymore and pieces being broken, or the carpet near the hatch latch pulling away, or 3 for 3 dash tops being cracked, center consoles being broken, t tops and door locks not working properly. Power antennas failing. Power windows needing pulled up while working the switch.

The lexus with 187k needed suspension work and vvt actuators and iac valve, the rsx with 162k needed a ac compressor. Everything else on those cars still worked and fit like normal. I didn't buy the rsx thinking I was going to go take down z28s. I bought it for reliable transportation that got 28mpg tank after tank. I had a 94 trans am at the time that got cam/bolt ons.

I guess my experience has just been different then yours which has given us different opinions.

I'm not really arguing either, it's a forum. I guess I can try to shut the hell up and just read, I'm just happy things are getting posted and it's not completely dead lol.

Btw this 2000 trans am I bought is the best one yet, it still has a ash try lid that doesn't work right, a cracked dash, the ext door locks are frozen, the turn signal has been a bitch due to the drls and cracked housing, power antenna needed replaced...that's all stuff that's never been a problem on the imports I owned that were equally as old with twice the mileage. But I bought it for its engine, I bought the imports for how they are built. It's a compromise I'm fine with.

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Old 01-21-2017, 11:44 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
I guess my experience has just been different then yours which has given us different opinions.

I'm just happy things are getting posted and it's not completely dead lol.
Agreed on both counts.

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Originally Posted by trilkb View Post
Btw this 2000 trans am I bought is the best one yet, it still has a ash try lid that doesn't work right, a cracked dash, the ext door locks are frozen, the turn signal has been a bitch due to the drls and cracked housing, power antenna needed replaced...that's all stuff that's never been a problem on the imports I owned that were equally as old with twice the mileage. But I bought it for its engine, I bought the imports for how they are built. It's a compromise I'm fine with.
I had exactly none of those issues with my '02 Z28 (FWIW, power antenna and headlight motor issues are in fact common for the Pontiacs, but these are non-issues for a Camaro.) In fairness, I would have had the DRL issue if I hadn't deleted that feature prior to the socket melting entirely, but I got ahead of that before it was a real problem. Mine sat outside too, for most of the years I owned it, but simply applying 303 to the dash once or twice per summer prevented it from ever cracking. In fact, other than the one power window motor, no interior pieces/controls broke or stopped working (not even the center console or ash tray) on that car. I don't know what some people do to the interior of these cars (hence my rabid cats comment), but mine held up just fine - even after many years sitting out in the sun and elements and 100k+ miles. It was a great daily driver, totally reliable and incredible performance for the money/era, tons of fun and fit me like a glove. It met all of my expectations and did exactly what I bought it to do. No disappointments.
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:56 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM WS6 View Post
Agreed on both counts.



I had exactly none of those issues with my '02 Z28 (FWIW, power antenna and headlight motor issues are in fact common for the Pontiacs, but these are non-issues for a Camaro.) In fairness, I would have had the DRL issue if I hadn't deleted that feature prior to the socket melting entirely, but I got ahead of that before it was a real problem. Mine sat outside too, for most of the years I owned it, but simply applying 303 to the dash once or twice per summer prevented it from ever cracking. In fact, other than the one power window motor, no interior pieces/controls broke or stopped working (not even the center console or ash tray) on that car. I don't know what some people do to the interior of these cars (hence my rabid cats comment), but mine held up just fine - even after many years sitting out in the sun and elements and 100k+ miles. It was a great daily driver, totally reliable and incredible performance for the money/era, tons of fun and fit me like a glove. It met all of my expectations and did exactly what I bought it to do. No disappointments.
Same here, I have zero of those issues minus the headlight motor and ground problem but that was taken care of a few years ago and has not been a problem since.

I agree, I have no idea how some interiors get the way they do.

I have no dash panel cracks, no door panel cracks, no sail panel bubbling ( I know it's a 98 and does get a garage spot year round ) no t-top leaks.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:50 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 'WHEELS' View Post
4) SouthernRex's F-body smokes everything
You're a ******* idiot if you think an LT1 or LS1 that isn't on it's last breath will be pulled on by a Honda Accord. I mean, unless you're a garbage driver and have no idea how to shift.

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Old 01-21-2017, 12:56 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by SouthernRex
You're a complete ******* idiot if you think an LT1 or LS1 that isn't on it's last breath will be pulled on by a Honda Accord.
I don't really care if it will or will not. Justin was stating facts, and you're always talking about cars being specks in your rear view, so I simply added that fact.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:59 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 'WHEELS' View Post
I don't really care if it will or will not. Justin was stating facts, and you're always talking about cars being specks in your rear view, so I simply added that fact.
Considering it was a part of the original post that the Accord would give an F-body a run for it's money in power, it wasn't exactly off topic.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:03 PM   #50
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Yea, comparing any new car to a 4th gen isn't going to turn out great for the 4th gen. LOL
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:07 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by SouthernRex View Post
No. An LT1 f-body will eat that thing alive.
I disagree. a New V6 accord will pull mid to low 14's at 98ish...that's LT1 territory. A 2.73 Convertible would probably lose to a new accord.

I good running LT1 (3.23 Auto or a 6 speed) is the faster car, but it wouldn't be a slaughter.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:10 PM   #52
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The bar is constantly being raised. An FBody owner now needs to do some self-reflection, acknowledge what he's after, and weigh whether or not he's going to chase those goals.
For me, I doubt I'm ever selling my 'Bird. It still makes it move for me, and it's an on-going project, filled with sentiment & pride. But that doesn't mean I'm never adding a newer performance car to my stable either. Don't close your mind to ever purchasing another vehicle, Myk. As an enthusiast, economic competition & market depreciation work in your favor. It's okay to want to diversify your driveway.
Remember in the early 2000's when a cammed LS1 would be chomping like hell at idle and putting down around 400HP and it was the ****? My how times change, back then I was worried about keeping up and being faster, now, it's all about just enjoying the car, trying to "keep up with the Jones's" is not a battle that can be won.
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Old 01-21-2017, 01:24 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cahill93Z28 View Post
I disagree. a New V6 accord will pull mid to low 14's at 98ish...that's LT1 territory. A 2.73 Convertible would probably lose to a new accord.

I good running LT1 (3.23 Auto or a 6 speed) is the faster car, but it wouldn't be a slaughter.
mid to high 14s. Even on their forums, Accord folk admit it is hero runs if quicker.

Let us not forget the torque steer under hard acceleration.

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Old 01-21-2017, 02:09 PM   #54
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Wife talked me into an '09 V6 Accord back in '09....for her, and I called it a go-cart.
126K on it, now it goes to the Daughter who has her learners. getting older.

Anywho, besides the rear brake issue from the factory, it's been a good car. Only other thing that I didn't like.... timing belt was $1200ish at a local shop (good price) at 100K miles....not something I was going to do in the driveway.

Congrats on your new ride.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:40 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Cahill93Z28 View Post
I disagree. a New V6 accord will pull mid to low 14's at 98ish...that's LT1 territory. A 2.73 Convertible would probably lose to a new accord.

I good running LT1 (3.23 Auto or a 6 speed) is the faster car, but it wouldn't be a slaughter.
Ummm I disagree.. The new Accord maybe can hang with a 95' GT Mustang or maybe an 96' Impala SS.. But not a Camaro or Corvette LT1.. No way..
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:04 AM   #56
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Of course a new accord will feel great and tight as a drum. Any new car should. Hell, my 20 year old camry wagon with brand new shocks, pads and steering rack also feels quite tight, almost like a new car with extra chassis flex and no new car smell..
I've driven a few quite new and newer cars recently and was unimpressed with handling and steering feel in most, from Prados, Jazz, Rav4, Lexus etc. Jazz (Honda) had best steering feel funnily enough it was by far the lightest and shortest wheelbase. Pretty gutless though. Engine tech is what got me though, low end torque from DI and VVT helps immensely in most cases, especially considering smaller engines of yesteryear along with the gearing and faster new autos. Toyota/Lexus V6s are on point! Spent some time in a brand new 335? D wagon. 8 speed and diesel, IL6 TT, about same torque as an LS3. That thing fookin' hauled *** from a dig, 4wd diesel torque and tight gears! It happily sat at 250kmh with 5 people on the 'bahn.

That said, what you described about the Accord, is why I build an LS3 Honda S2000. They have the same EPS system as the NSX and were built in the same factory and handle amazingly also. Renowned, planted, razor sharp steering feel - literally nudge the wheel a few degrees and car goes there instantly, you can make the car 'tremble' if you rapidly steer small movements side to side fast enough, it's that taut and responsive. It weighs half a tonne less than an Accord too. plus has a soft top.

Here most of our roads are severely twisty. Straights are actually rather uncommon.. so a chassis like that for an LS swap here, is about as good as it gets until you're going LSeXocet etc..

So, with some foresight, you can have your cake and eat it!
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Old 01-22-2017, 04:16 AM   #57
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This is why the Big3 almost went under 10 years ago. They refused to address their quality and performance issues and instead relied on the ignorance of most of their customers - all the while the rest of the world is passing them by. Eventually it caught up to them. American cars are still a far cry from the european and asian offerings, but at least things are getting better.
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:22 PM   #58
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This is why the Big3 almost went under 10 years ago. They refused to address their quality and performance issues and instead relied on the ignorance of most of their customers - all the while the rest of the world is passing them by. Eventually it caught up to them. American cars are still a far cry from the european and asian offerings, but at least things are getting better.
Their financial crisis was far more complicated than quality or performance issues at the time, and they are not at all a far cry from their import competitors today.
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Old 01-22-2017, 05:24 PM   #59
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Yeah my mom has a '15 Civic Si and even as an entry level type of car the interior quality is decent. Although, you can't really compare cars from the 90s and 00s to the newer cars, things have changed a lot. Pretty much all my friends have more modern cars than me but I like my Camaro for what it is. Stalled, full exhaust, DR's, my old LS1 still runs alright.
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Old 01-23-2017, 11:08 AM   #60
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I don't really care if it will or will not. Justin was stating facts, and you're always talking about cars being specks in your rear view, so I simply added that fact.
He might make Accords into specks in his rearview mirror, but he "eats alive" SRT-8s in his almost stock TA. He said so in the 5.7 Challenger thread. Not sure which one is the greater victory..."eating alive" or "turning into specks". Both sound pretty hardcore.
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