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Old 01-28-2006, 07:31 PM   #1
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Default any bmw experts in the house?

yeah i know this is ls1tech but i bet i get better answers here than on a bmw site

i am looking at a 2002 330ci or i, stick with about ~80k on it.

the 2002 330ci looks a lot like the 2002 m3 but the m3 is WAY more money. any idea why? i plan on driving it for a year or two and boosting it eventualy. i guess the 3.0 inline 6 is very strong in stock form and the rest of the driveline is prety decent too as long as it isn't an auto. i can get a car like this for about $16k, the m3's seem to be $10k+ more. is there any way they are worth that much more money?

other questions. the xi(awd) doesn't seem to be any more money used but i am being told the awd parts probably wont like extra power if i go that route and i am also told the rwd does prety good in the snow so unless someone tell me diferent i wont be going awd.

there is also the 325ci wich apears to be the same car but with a 2.5L motor. from what i can see there is no reason to consider this car unless the 2.5L motor somehow would be better for the boost i want to run eventualy. i am not geting that impresion from anyone yet.

i am new to looking at these cars so any info you guys might have to share would be great. the bmw sites i am going to dont seem to have much traffic and very few of them do any real performance mods.

here is a pic of a m3

Click the image to open in full size.

and a pic of a 330ci

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 01-28-2006, 07:42 PM   #2
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M3---->http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/bmw...687/specs.html

330---->http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/bmw...669/specs.html

Wish I could help you more...I say M3
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:25 PM   #3
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M3's are low 13's stock, and 330i's are high 14's stock. I'm not sure what 330's cost compared to the same year M3, but you'd have to drill down the differences and see if they make sense to you.

My dd Acura TL 6MT has killed a few 330's, and lost to a M3. 330i's in auto or AWD are slow, and a 6 spd 330i is rare.
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Old 01-29-2006, 02:43 PM   #4
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it seems the m3 has about 110 more hp. better brakes and suspension, larger rims and wider tires. used for the same year apears to be over twice the cost. ~16k for the 330i and over $30k for the m3. for that price diference i think a turbo on the 330i would be the way to go. save over $1000 on plates up front and less insurance too. i will have to put some cool wheels on it.
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Old 01-29-2006, 03:27 PM   #5
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Default 330 or m3

My step dad has had both a 02 330ci and a 03 m3. He now has a black 04 m3 that he sold his 05 c6 to get. He does alot of track racing around our house and says that nothing is close to the m3. If you a have chance to go test drive both do it and you will see. The m3 may be a better platform to start with.
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Old 01-29-2006, 04:29 PM   #6
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I'm a BMW tech.

dtmpower.net is the LS1tech.com of BMWs. Check it out. It's setup very similar.

As far as M3 v. 330 ci/i/xi v. 325i.

There's lots to know here. None of the ix/xi cars are going to like a 'charger. And for what it's worth, parts are expensive.

You're looking at cars ranging from low $30s, to mid $50s. Resale value on these cars is ALWAYS high. They are in demand, and are a top of the line car in most peoples eyes.

There's no reason to go with the 325... So I would throw that one out. The 330ci is a great car. I love driving them, but like PSJ said. They are a low 15, very high 14 second car from the factory. My buddy had an '02 330ci supercharged, and ran 13.9 if I recall. Like I said, there's a lot to know about these cars, and there aren't a whole lot of knowledgable people out there tuning them.

The M3 is in a whole 'nother league. Pop the hood on the M3, v. the 330, and you instantly see the difference. Throttle body per cylinder, etc. Awesome cars, but there have been issues with the. From 2000-02 rod bolts went in more than a few them. Basically grenading the motor. This was covered under warranty for most of them. A new factory motor replaced the blown ones. Probably would have cost a customer over $12k.


The number one mod for these cars, is an LSD diff. This will cost you just over 3K with all the good stuff.

You'll learn real quick, that modding these cars is not cheap. And you pay a premium for all the good parts.

Oh, and BTW. These cars in RWD form SUCK in the snow. I suggest running Hakapellita snows, or you'll probably end up stuck. The traction control systems in these cars are amazing, but you need good snow tires to get through stuff.

I'll stop here for now....
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Old 01-29-2006, 04:32 PM   #7
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Living in Chicago, we basically went with the TL 6MT over the 330i 6MT because the BMW was RWD. If I drove an M3 or 330i in winter I would run two sets of rims, one with snow tires.

I saw a rookie driver run a M3 down to a 13.2@107mph, stock. I have also seen a 330 run 14.7 the same day.
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Old 01-29-2006, 05:36 PM   #8
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yeah. whoever said theyre good the snow is dead wrong. used to have a 99 323is...sucked in the snow, but the tires werent for it either. i personally liked the 2.5L but im sure the 3.0 is much better. theyre a pleasurably car to drive and their strenght isnt in a quarter but in curves. theyre a blast. id say get the 330...no reason not too, but be prepared for a crappy time in the snow. and if i remember right youre supposed to give them a big tuneup at 100k.. am i right BAD ***?
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:40 PM   #9
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Right. We try to do it under 100k. BMW calls this Inspection 1, and Inspection2 services.

They try and push the 100k mark. We usually have customers do it much earlier than that. There's no reason to go 100k on a factory fuel filter. Gas around here is horrible to top it off. Not to say it can't be done. but if it were my car, I'd be doing the same service at 20,40, 60k. Know what I mean? Just basic car maitenance that assures your ride is going to stay in good condition.

I'm not one for buying cars with high mileage. But these cars are the ones that can do it. The old school E30 cars go 400k miles no problem. I honestly don't see the new E46 cars going this far. But they will go 200k without a blink of an eye.
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:44 PM   #10
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Send a private message to Shinkaze

He's the local M3 expert.
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:50 PM   #11
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Bad *** would you recommend to Parish the SMG or 6MT? I read one crazy *** post on another site, with pictures, saying that the SMG caused a fire or something? Burned the whole front end of the car. If the car was off warranty how much would it cost to replace the SMG compared to the traditional manual?
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Old 01-29-2006, 09:51 PM   #12
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Oh, and Parish check out www.loaded.se

Look at that M3

It's an '04 BMW M3 CSL. Factory carbon fiber roof, hood, and spoiler. Basically similar to the factory track car of Porsche, the GT3.

This guy has EVERYTHING done to it. Supercharged, Mov It brakes, etc.

Check out the movies... The car is absoloutly amazing. Brand new the car is approx. $90k USD. He had everything done to it, as soon as the car came out.

Must be nice huh?
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:59 AM   #13
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I have a 2000 328Ci with an ESS Supercharger system on it which includes a vortech unit. Runs low 14's but barely gets pulled from a roll against an M3. As mentioned before, mods are expensive, and there are very few people who actually know how to tune these cars. The M3 is indeed a completely different car from the regular 3 series, and if I had to do it all over again, I probably would have spent the money on the M3. Besides, the SMG trans you can get in that thing is one of the coolest transmissions put in any car today.

One thing I would warn you about. REAR SUBFRAME TEARS. It happened to my car and is a problem that BMW is unwilling to address. Basically the rear subframe tears around the body mount. It requires a repair that cost around $5,000 and sometimes BMW will pay for half if your lucky. It happened to my car and took the dealership nearly 8 weeks to repair it. This issue made me lose a lot of respect for BMW, their cars, and most especially every employee of Tom Bush BMW located in Jacksonville, FL all the way up to the General Manager, all a bunch of idiots and ********. (Venting Over )

The car is fun to drive, handles well and is very comfortable. Unfortunately BMW's are not made to be rockets like most domestics on this board. I occasionally drive modded 03 Cobra, and would take my slow bimmer over it as a daily driver. So I guess if you want comfort and handling get a BMW but if you want something fast, buy a cobra or a vette.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeySS
Bad *** would you recommend to Parish the SMG or 6MT? I read one crazy *** post on another site, with pictures, saying that the SMG caused a fire or something? Burned the whole front end of the car. If the car was off warranty how much would it cost to replace the SMG compared to the traditional manual?
I say go 6 speed. But I'm not one for autos, or manual shifted autos.

That aside, the SMG tranny is awesome. The car is a blast to drive, and makes you feel like you're driving something on a racetrack. Launch mode, perfect shifts, downshifts, etc. It has some really cool features. The CSL I posted in the loaded.se link has an SMG tranny, and has held up just fine I believe. And to be honest, we have had no problems with them.

To replace and entire trans, would probably be around $7k. Like I said, these cars aren't cheap to repair.

Blown Z71, how did you end up breaking the subframe. Did you rip out the bushings, or crack the subframe itself.

We had one that cracked the subframe itself. Instead of getting a new unit, we welded it. Installed new bushings, and it was stronger than ever before. It does happen, but usually only to the cars that see the real abuse. And even then, we don't see it often.

The cars themselves are amazing. I love all of them. The E46 cars are great, I like the new E90s even better. E30s, and E36 3 series cars are proven, and you can do a ton of stuff to them.

The ESS supercharging system using the Vortech HU, is definately one of the best kits out there. If you aren't going turbo, I'd recommend ESS 100%.

I want a supercharged E38 7 series in the worst way...
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Old 02-01-2006, 07:14 AM   #15
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The actual metal surrounding the bushing where the subframe is attached was torn, repair required complete disassembly of the rear suspension, cut a hole in the floor of the trunk to gain access to the area to repair, reweld it re-assemble. It is a problem which occurs on abused car, which I must admit mine is, but also occurs on granny driven cars at all different mileages.


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...light=subframe


The new ESS kits use a Rotex blower, which seems like a pretty cool unit because it disengages at idle RPM, works kind of like a turbo, no power consuption at idle, but boost power we you hit higher rpm's.
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:49 AM   #16
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I was driving next to a bright blue M3 all the way into work today, and really the only visual difference are the fender vents and the wheels. Is the rear lower valance different?
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:53 PM   #17
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Actually the only body parts shared with a regular 3 series is the roof, doors, and trunklid. The front and rear fenders are wider, similar to what they do on the new Z06, the front fenders include side grills, the rear valance is lower and includes dual exhaust, the front bumper is different, and the hood is bulged in the center. Also, M3 wheels will not fit on a regular 3-series due to offest differences.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:01 PM   #18
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I ran a black M3 at the MFBA track rental, he said he was having some traction issues but those things are REALLY fast all the way up until the top end which is obviously lacking. I started pulling him at about 70-80 mph ended up with his nose at my door. Definetely a quick little car (plus I cant drive for ****) btw all i have is a lid and catback
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Old 02-01-2006, 05:05 PM   #19
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My mom has a '01 330i and I have always wondered about the compression and how it would take boost. Keep us posted.
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Old 02-01-2006, 10:33 PM   #20
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Nope I know nothing about them...........I have an 04 3 series.............heck i work on my turbo camaro all the time I think ive opened the hood on the bmw once.............


Quote:
Originally Posted by parish8
yeah i know this is ls1tech but i bet i get better answers here than on a bmw site

i am looking at a 2002 330ci or i, stick with about ~80k on it.

the 2002 330ci looks a lot like the 2002 m3 but the m3 is WAY more money. any idea why? i plan on driving it for a year or two and boosting it eventualy. i guess the 3.0 inline 6 is very strong in stock form and the rest of the driveline is prety decent too as long as it isn't an auto. i can get a car like this for about $16k, the m3's seem to be $10k+ more. is there any way they are worth that much more money?

other questions. the xi(awd) doesn't seem to be any more money used but i am being told the awd parts probably wont like extra power if i go that route and i am also told the rwd does prety good in the snow so unless someone tell me diferent i wont be going awd.

there is also the 325ci wich apears to be the same car but with a 2.5L motor. from what i can see there is no reason to consider this car unless the 2.5L motor somehow would be better for the boost i want to run eventualy. i am not geting that impresion from anyone yet.

i am new to looking at these cars so any info you guys might have to share would be great. the bmw sites i am going to dont seem to have much traffic and very few of them do any real performance mods.

here is a pic of a m3

Click the image to open in full size.

and a pic of a 330ci

Click the image to open in full size.
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