Is the 4th gen still competitive in AutoX? - Page 2 - LS1TECH



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Is the 4th gen still competitive in AutoX?

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Old 09-23-2016, 01:02 PM   #21
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I feel the 4th gen is a hidden track warrior, or maybe for better words a forgotten track car. Back when I first started building chassis parts for these cars they seemed more popular in the road race and autocross world, this was most likely due to the fact that that S197 Mustang didn't exist yet and the 5th gen Camaro wasn't a thing. Also pro-touring older cars seemed very rare. That really blew up, as did using Corvettes.

The 4th gen has virtually any part out there you need, its comfortable, its affordable and its bad a$$. I am fan and think they are going to creep up in the road race circuit more and more.

The UMI test car is a good example. Do I win driving it? No I don't, we've had a few 2nd place finishes, one first place and lots of top 10s. But this is solely driver, myself and Jerry who drives our 4th gen, well we are both good drivers, not pro drivers. I know that if you put a pro driver such as Sam Strano or Danny Popp in this car they could win an event.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:46 PM   #22
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Yes it is. My sons car is all UMI, front to rear to include the roadrace K-member with Viking coilovers. His car is wicked on the track. With the right driver, it would kill most other cars. A friend of ours is a national level driver and test drove my sons car on a AutoX T&T day. He was only .2 sec slower than he was with his own S2000. He was amazed at how well the Camaro handled.
Also, he had the fastest lap time of the day by 2.5 sec. over anyone else.

He also said that he still had alot of power to spare and the engine was still stock internals. He said it would be an absolute blast on a track like NCM.

I'll throw this edit in there too. My son has a very good understanding of his suspension settings as well. He's raced motocross for years and I had built all his suspensions myself. So he knows when a bike or car reacts a certain way, what needs to be adjusted. Whether it's ride height, rake, compression, rebound, etc. based on what kind of surface he's on.

Last edited by SAPPER; 09-23-2016 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:48 PM   #23
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He said it would be an absolute blast on a track like NCM.
I've only ever ran NCM as half tracks, but I have ran both sides... that track scares me. Guardrails are bad. I have ran Pitt Race, Putnam and Gingerman all full force in the 4th gen and liked those tracks, they are a blast.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:07 PM   #24
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Ryan, I missed you guys last week at NCM. I was gonna rollover to watch but was wrapped up in your booth BS-ing then the storm rolled in so we hauled out quick. But with my son gone in the Air Force and his car sitting with no motor in it right now, I only caught a little of the AutoX.
But I know alot of those AutoX guys need some drag racing practice. LOL
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:52 PM   #25
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Ryan, I missed you guys last week at NCM. I was gonna rollover to watch but was wrapped up in your booth BS-ing then the storm rolled in so we hauled out quick. But with my son gone in the Air Force and his car sitting with no motor in it right now, I only caught a little of the AutoX.
But I know alot of those AutoX guys need some drag racing practice. LOL
Thanks for stopping by! Sorry I missed you... that storm was pretty nuts for sure. And yes they sure do!
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:55 PM   #26
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I feel the 4th gen is a hidden track warrior, or maybe for better words a forgotten track car.
I agree 100%, I think the car is just as capable as putting up a W as anything else out there. But years have passed and people have moved on to the new fangled whatever. The car never stopped being competitive it just fell out of the limelight.

Well Ive got about 2 grand worth of parts boxes sitting in my garage right now including UMI suspension pieces, Turn One pump, Strano sways, new squared track wheels, aluminum flywheel, BMR springs, SLP bilstiens, B&M power steering cooler, poly trans mount, new ball joints, and who knows what all else. All of it is going on this winter and im hoping to hurt some feelings next AutoX season once I get a feel for the car in its new trim. Cant wait!
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Old 09-26-2016, 11:32 AM   #27
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one limiting factor that you cant over come is the solid rear axle. youll never be able to have rear camber. as ive progressed up the ranks, this is some thing i desire.
sure i can strip my car and get it down or below z06 weight, but that solid rear will never perform like IRS or have the ability to have rear camber.

that being said, i do enjoy all the people amazed at my performance after i run AX. all the "you never see these", "land yaght", "how did you do that" comments
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Old 09-26-2016, 12:52 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by STANG KILLA SS 2 View Post
one limiting factor that you cant over come is the solid rear axle. youll never be able to have rear camber. as ive progressed up the ranks, this is some thing i desire.
sure i can strip my car and get it down or below z06 weight, but that solid rear will never perform like IRS or have the ability to have rear camber.

that being said, i do enjoy all the people amazed at my performance after i run AX. all the "you never see these", "land yaght", "how did you do that" comments
Yeah there are definite drawbacks, I doubt I will ever want to be competitive enough to NEED those things. Yeah I want all I can get out of the car, but Im not looking to travel the nation racing either. If I did I would find a different car but I dont see myself enjoying it more than I would in my camaro. BTW Im following your thread closely, keeps me excited to get out there!

I fall more inline with your last comment. I really like being competitive with the car that no one pays attention to any longer.
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Old 09-26-2016, 01:26 PM   #29
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do it, and watch there jaws drop. i get soooo many people come up to me....AFTER they see my runs lol.
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Old 09-28-2016, 10:10 AM   #30
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Tires! Don't forget good tires in your equation! I run a square 315 set on my WS6. BFG's or Falkan are good for the 200 TW class like CAM.
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Old 09-30-2016, 06:55 AM   #31
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A 4th gen only won ESP at Nationals this year...
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:26 AM   #32
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If you drop a blind squirrel in a bucket of nuts...
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Old 09-30-2016, 08:46 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by DietCoke View Post
If you drop a blind squirrel in a bucket of nuts...
Oh really? Please tell us how he got lucky with a 0.6s day 1 lead? The car is fast, plain and simple. If I hadn't drove like **** it would have been a 4th gen 1-2
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:12 PM   #34
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Oh really? Please tell us how he got lucky with a 0.6s day 1 lead? The car is fast, plain and simple. If I hadn't drove like **** it would have been a 4th gen 1-2
Not what I was getting at in the least.

Put the same driver in an equally prepared counterpart car and he will go faster. You don't see a lot of them yet, because it's cubic dollars - but you will.
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Old 09-30-2016, 10:45 PM   #35
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Not what I was getting at in the least.

Put the same driver in an equally prepared counterpart car and he will go faster. You don't see a lot of them yet, because it's cubic dollars - but you will.
Well its been 18+ years and looks like they're still pulling national championships. Even locally I have yet to see another street pony car run similar times as I do. I usually end up with all the Subarus...much to their surprise
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Old 10-01-2016, 09:09 AM   #36
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Not what I was getting at in the least.

Put the same driver in an equally prepared counterpart car and he will go faster. You don't see a lot of them yet, because it's cubic dollars - but you will.
And that's not what the OP asked. The driver is almost never equal and the 4th gen is still good enough to get it done. With enough work they can get down to 3100lbs and nearly 400whp in ESP trim, which is more than enough to play with all the Mustangs. They would be very good CAM cars, pretty good STP cars if anybody actually cared enough to run there, and most drivers suck in CP so it would do just fine there too.

They are not competitive in FS, but that's the only class you can say that for.

And I do see the new Mustangs a lot, 3rd place guy from day one is in my region so I run him every weekend. When I actually have fresh tires on the car, I'm generally quicker. The car will be faster next year now that it's not breaking or having major setup changes at every single event. But if you would rather claim it's too slow without every actually trying it yourself, have at it.
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Old 10-01-2016, 04:44 PM   #37
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and most drivers suck in CP so it would do just fine there too.
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Old 10-01-2016, 10:01 PM   #38
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All forms of racing will have this as a factor. In autocross it's not SO much about the parts/power as it is about the driver. Seat time and tires are your biggest factor. I don' have the wallet to be running on new A6 or A7's which would for sure put me in podium positions within my ESP class. Add the ability to run CCW's or another light wheel and things get that much better...but again $$$$$.




Watch those hubs on 315's!! lol. My goal is to go to the SKF race hubs and 315's over the winter.


OP, IMO Fbodys can be competitive for sure. If I did it again I would go LS1 car since right out of the box they make more power than LT1 cars in stock form. Add headers/exhaust/tune and you are still ahead of LT1 cars with the same mods. Shocks/springs/swaybars and good tires completely transform these cars.

BUT if you have ANY desire to keep with autocrossing and want to be fairly competitive then I would look into a C5. The benefits of a Fbody is that parts are cheap. But I feel you will always be one step behind a Corvette. A C5 is the best bang for the buck next to a Miata...just cost more to buy and mod.

You will need shocks/spring/swaybars wheels/tires, full exhaust, tune, and a good driver to TRY and hang with a stock-ish C5 with tires only...name of the game.

My goals for autocrossing is to be fast...not fast within a class, just fast. SO I build my 95 Z in a manner that gets my raw times down. I'm constantly at the bottom of top 1/3 cars in raw times. Last sunday I was 22nd of 73 cars. Majority of the cars ahead of me are C5's, Miata's, S2000, Subarus. All of which have good drivers in them.

I remember one member saying that the Fbody taught him how to drive a car. When he went to a C5, he was able to push it that much more and be quicker but that a C5 is "easy" to drive. The Fbody is a little more rough around the edges and you need to stay on top of it.
May I add never go with a LT1 for any racing application. LT1s are the worst possible motor for performance.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:52 AM   #39
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May I add never go with a LT1 for any racing application. LT1s are the worst possible motor for performance.
Wow....that's a bold statement. Care to expand on this?

There are MANY people on this site that will differ....including myself. A Ford Mod motor would be one that is worse lol.

BTW, I'm running a LT1 with good success. But since everything aftermarket has more focus on LS these days, I would go with an LS car if something happened to mine.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:33 PM   #40
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I ageee with it. I still have the LT1 and I'm going to run it until it blows up. It's not worth anything and I can't justify throwing it away while it's still healthy. It's tough to even find someone to tune LT1's. So if you can help it, get an LS1 car.
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