LG Motorsports "G-Stop" Big Brakes - Post track comments
04-21-2002, 06:14 PM
#1
LG Motorsports "G-Stop" Big Brakes - Post track comments This is a rather long post, but I want to be thorough in my description.
RE:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthrea...&threadid=75378
Above referenced brake kit with Hawk Blue pads.
First some background:
'98 Trans AM
Stock driveline
ST 35mm/1LE 21mm sways
BMR sub-frames/PHB
G2 Torque Arm/Springs/poly-rod LCAs
Nitto 555R2
Fresh Motul 5.1
Partly cloudy, 65 degrees.
Also, Mike Staley was out there on this same kit, only without other issues clouding the braking performance of the car. But I will let him speak for himself.
First of all, I want to thank Glenn, Kevin, James, Mike and Chuck for their help and patience with me this weekend. You guys are the greatest!
Decided to do a 75% run, about 10 minutes long, to give the pads and rotors a chance to "season". I had previously run the Blues for a week of daily driving and couple of bedding runs, to get them ready. I wanted to pull the front wheels after and check all the bolts and look for any problems. I also wanted to take rotor and pad temps.
My first run was very disappointing. The pedal, while rock hard sitting with the engine off, gave me a LONG pedal on the track/engine running. I never lost brakes or felt fade, it's just the pedal was unpredictable ... high and hard one time and way down there at the next. Again, it was uinpredictable.
This was a pre-existing condition, but not quite as dramatic.
I called LGs and asked for some advice. First suggestion was to bleed down the brakes again. So I did that, running a fresh 1/2 litre through the fronts.
Run#2: Better ... at first, but the condition returned after 3 or 4 laps. While the pedal was all there, the car would really plant the nose, even with the heavier springs. The car would track straight and true and there was ZERO wheel hop, but never hard enough to get into the ABS.
But that damn pedal! I called Lou and ran the scenario across him and he surmized, along with Glenn, that I must have a Master Cylinder that is leaking by. Engine off, pump up to rock hard pedal, but with pressure it would SLOWLY move down. Engine running, it wouldn't pump up like it would with the engine off.
The next 2 sessions were a little apprehensive ... I was unsure of the brakes and really wasn't punishing them too much because I was braking VERY early. I think that might've caused another issue I had with the pads.
When I would come in, rotor temps were in the 450-500 range pad edge temps were ~ 350 and caliper temps were ~250. I don't believe that is the optimum temperature range for the Blues. They just never really bit like I was used to seeing with the Carbo-Tech Panthers Plus I used on the old AZ rotors.
Came home and bled down the brakes once again, the fluid looking very fresh, only slightly discolored. I also decided to try a set of used Panther Plus' I had from the previous event. They still had over 60% of the pad left, so what the heck. In all fairness, the issues with the pedal and my braking technique, never got teh pads into their optimum temperature range.
Session 1, Day 2:
I remembered what I used to do when I would get this long pedal and Lou chimed in as well, to give the brake pedal a little tap with the left foot as I went down a straight.
So I began doing that once again and my confidence level began going up. So I began mashing the brake pedal harder and deeper into corners.
Finally, I began seeing the "Low-Trac" light come on, but still no sign of ABS or wheel hop.
Session 2, Day 2:
I purposely came out last, because I wanted some track time all alone. If I had to put a dent in the floor, I was gonna feel the ABS.
I also began getting used to the footwork required to stab at the brake pedal and then get ready to heel-toe. It's a lot more difficult to do it, when thinking about it. I found just letting it happen made my feet go to the right place when the time was right.
So, at ~100mph, and a hard pedal, I really got into the brakes ... HARD! Finally I could feel the ABS kicking in and it all felt normal (Ellisone ... NO LOCK UP! ) just like it felt before the brake upgrade.
To make sure, I did the same thing at 3 different places, for 3 consecutive laps. Each time, the braking was straight, true, consistant, predictable and AWESOME!
I let them cool for a lap and then did it once again, with the same results.
By this time, a good running Mustang had come up behind me, I waived him around and decided to chase him for a while.
He was running Yokes, with Cobra brakes and a sweet sounding engine. This was a track only car and he and I were very well matched.
After a lap of so, I began to really test the brakes. Remember, I'm 8 or 9 laps (15 minutes) into a HEAVY braking session. I would see his tail lights come on, with me 6 or 8 car lengths back, count to 3 and then plow into the brakes, closing to 2 or 3 car lengths and purposely over-braking.
He would pull out another 6 or 8 lengths and I wouild close again under braking. In the previous session, when I began the stab procedure, I was using the brake markers the Porsche track cars were using with very good success. They weren't out-braking me ... maybe out turning, but not out braking me.
I wish I hadn't had the MC problem (the check valve for the booster was tested OK) so that I could be more definitive. But, after the work-around, the brakes were VERY impressive. A MC will be ordered tomorrow and installed prior to Hallett, in mid-May.
I've never driven a car with anything other than stock type brakes. So I can't say they compare to Brembos, Wilwoods or BAERs. That would be a lie ...
But I can say, they are a tremendous gain over stock.
Thanks LG for your help and support.
I honestly believe you guys have a winner!
RE:
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthrea...&threadid=75378
Above referenced brake kit with Hawk Blue pads.
First some background:
'98 Trans AM
Stock driveline
ST 35mm/1LE 21mm sways
BMR sub-frames/PHB
G2 Torque Arm/Springs/poly-rod LCAs
Nitto 555R2
Fresh Motul 5.1
Partly cloudy, 65 degrees.
Also, Mike Staley was out there on this same kit, only without other issues clouding the braking performance of the car. But I will let him speak for himself.
First of all, I want to thank Glenn, Kevin, James, Mike and Chuck for their help and patience with me this weekend. You guys are the greatest!
Decided to do a 75% run, about 10 minutes long, to give the pads and rotors a chance to "season". I had previously run the Blues for a week of daily driving and couple of bedding runs, to get them ready. I wanted to pull the front wheels after and check all the bolts and look for any problems. I also wanted to take rotor and pad temps.
My first run was very disappointing. The pedal, while rock hard sitting with the engine off, gave me a LONG pedal on the track/engine running. I never lost brakes or felt fade, it's just the pedal was unpredictable ... high and hard one time and way down there at the next. Again, it was uinpredictable.
This was a pre-existing condition, but not quite as dramatic.
I called LGs and asked for some advice. First suggestion was to bleed down the brakes again. So I did that, running a fresh 1/2 litre through the fronts.
Run#2: Better ... at first, but the condition returned after 3 or 4 laps. While the pedal was all there, the car would really plant the nose, even with the heavier springs. The car would track straight and true and there was ZERO wheel hop, but never hard enough to get into the ABS.
But that damn pedal! I called Lou and ran the scenario across him and he surmized, along with Glenn, that I must have a Master Cylinder that is leaking by. Engine off, pump up to rock hard pedal, but with pressure it would SLOWLY move down. Engine running, it wouldn't pump up like it would with the engine off.
The next 2 sessions were a little apprehensive ... I was unsure of the brakes and really wasn't punishing them too much because I was braking VERY early. I think that might've caused another issue I had with the pads.
When I would come in, rotor temps were in the 450-500 range pad edge temps were ~ 350 and caliper temps were ~250. I don't believe that is the optimum temperature range for the Blues. They just never really bit like I was used to seeing with the Carbo-Tech Panthers Plus I used on the old AZ rotors.
Came home and bled down the brakes once again, the fluid looking very fresh, only slightly discolored. I also decided to try a set of used Panther Plus' I had from the previous event. They still had over 60% of the pad left, so what the heck. In all fairness, the issues with the pedal and my braking technique, never got teh pads into their optimum temperature range.
Session 1, Day 2:
I remembered what I used to do when I would get this long pedal and Lou chimed in as well, to give the brake pedal a little tap with the left foot as I went down a straight.
So I began doing that once again and my confidence level began going up. So I began mashing the brake pedal harder and deeper into corners.
Finally, I began seeing the "Low-Trac" light come on, but still no sign of ABS or wheel hop.
Session 2, Day 2:
I purposely came out last, because I wanted some track time all alone. If I had to put a dent in the floor, I was gonna feel the ABS.
I also began getting used to the footwork required to stab at the brake pedal and then get ready to heel-toe. It's a lot more difficult to do it, when thinking about it. I found just letting it happen made my feet go to the right place when the time was right.
So, at ~100mph, and a hard pedal, I really got into the brakes ... HARD! Finally I could feel the ABS kicking in and it all felt normal (Ellisone ... NO LOCK UP! ) just like it felt before the brake upgrade.
To make sure, I did the same thing at 3 different places, for 3 consecutive laps. Each time, the braking was straight, true, consistant, predictable and AWESOME!
I let them cool for a lap and then did it once again, with the same results.
By this time, a good running Mustang had come up behind me, I waived him around and decided to chase him for a while.
He was running Yokes, with Cobra brakes and a sweet sounding engine. This was a track only car and he and I were very well matched.
After a lap of so, I began to really test the brakes. Remember, I'm 8 or 9 laps (15 minutes) into a HEAVY braking session. I would see his tail lights come on, with me 6 or 8 car lengths back, count to 3 and then plow into the brakes, closing to 2 or 3 car lengths and purposely over-braking.
He would pull out another 6 or 8 lengths and I wouild close again under braking. In the previous session, when I began the stab procedure, I was using the brake markers the Porsche track cars were using with very good success. They weren't out-braking me ... maybe out turning, but not out braking me.
I wish I hadn't had the MC problem (the check valve for the booster was tested OK) so that I could be more definitive. But, after the work-around, the brakes were VERY impressive. A MC will be ordered tomorrow and installed prior to Hallett, in mid-May.
I've never driven a car with anything other than stock type brakes. So I can't say they compare to Brembos, Wilwoods or BAERs. That would be a lie ...
But I can say, they are a tremendous gain over stock.
Thanks LG for your help and support.
I honestly believe you guys have a winner!
04-20-2003, 10:36 AM
#2
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Re: LG Motorsports "G-Stop" Big Brakes - Post track comments Are there any more updates on the LG system?
How does this system compare with some of the other braking systems out there? Say Baer Claw track package?
How does this system compare with some of the other braking systems out there? Say Baer Claw track package?
04-20-2003, 01:12 PM
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Re: LG Motorsports "G-Stop" Big Brakes - Post track comments Mitch,
What calipers do you have? I get a long pedal too and am wondering if I need a bigger master cylinder to feed the bigger calipers.
I have the stock LT1 master cylinder feeding LS1 calipers with C5 GMPP rotors up front. I was also able to outbrake people easily.
BobC
What calipers do you have? I get a long pedal too and am wondering if I need a bigger master cylinder to feed the bigger calipers.
I have the stock LT1 master cylinder feeding LS1 calipers with C5 GMPP rotors up front. I was also able to outbrake people easily.
BobC
04-21-2003, 07:10 AM
#6
Re: LG Motorsports "G-Stop" Big Brakes - Post track comments Bob, my long pedal began before I did ANY brake upgrade.
After all the changing I've done chasing this issue, I'm now convinced it's either vacumn related or I have air in the ABS module.
I'm gonna track down a Tech2 and cycle the ABS solenoids while bleeding. I've tried the 10mph, ABS event, don't shut off the car to bleed method ...
After all the changing I've done chasing this issue, I'm now convinced it's either vacumn related or I have air in the ABS module.
I'm gonna track down a Tech2 and cycle the ABS solenoids while bleeding. I've tried the 10mph, ABS event, don't shut off the car to bleed method ...
04-27-2003, 10:36 AM
#7
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Re: LG Motorsports "G-Stop" Big Brakes - Post track comments I tried my slotted DBA rotors and GStop brackets I got from Lou yesterday at Holtville. Turned them blue with Raybestos Ceramic pads. No warping or any problems. Was able to brake much later with confidence, and fade didn't happen as dramatically as the stock rotors with my same street pads, and when it did happen it recovered much quicker.
Leo
Leo