Houston999

iTrader: (3)

I just bought a 2002 z06 that is going to be a track car? I have and ls7 long block that will be installed in it soon. which would be better the accusump or the dry sump for it?

thank you

OKcruising

Depends.
What are your suspension mods?

If your doing street coilovers or the T1 suspension, you'll be fine with accusump, I don't know what your planning your car for, but realistically, accusump is more than enough for 99% of LSx road track guys.

The stock LS7 pan actually isn't that great a design for drysump, there is an engineer who has a very much improved design in the works, and he has a very trick drysump setup for vettes for sale.

Oh yea, accusump is a HELL of a lot cheaper.
I'm currently installing the ARE drysump kit, kit sans lines, with double roller chain, was 3600. Add another 1500 for lines, misc. Then theres the labor to pin the crank, drop the engine, route all the lines, the 400 bucks for the battery relocation and associated labor. Very expensive but worth it and justified to me and goals.

vanwyk4257

iTrader: (11)

Dry sump is always going to be a superior setup to an accusump. The accusump makes up for natural deficiencies in a wet sump oil system from the oil sloshing around in the pan. A dry sump system obviously doesn't have those problems. There's a reason that you almost never see a Porsche 911 spin a rod bearing like so many other cars.

DONAIMIAN

iTrader: (18)

If its a real LS7 longblock, you don't really have a choice because of the longer crank snout.

WECIV

Can someone explain how an accusump works compared to a drysump? I know what a drysump is but I have never heard of an accusump. Thanks!!!

W

vanwyk4257

iTrader: (11)

The accusump is a pressurized oil reservoir that sends oil to the engine any time the oil pressure in the engine drops below a preset limit. All it does is provide a short supply of oil to keep the bearings lubricated. As soon as the oil pressure in the engine comes back up the oil is returned to the reservoir until needed again. Canton Motorsports makes the best ones that I am aware of, you can get anywhere from a 1.5 to a 3 quart if I remember correctly. I plan on putting a 3 quart unit in my LT1 track car before next season since I'm running a stock oil pan and pickup.

WECIV

Cool...that sounds like a good old simple design. I like simple!!!

W

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

question about accusump.

is the accumulator basically a chamber for pressurized oil with one fitting?

if i say wanted to run a 5qt accusump, and made my own resivior, would that work?

is 3qts more than plenty?

i've lost two motors due to ls1's shitty oil return from the heads this year, and ill be drilling out lifter trays, and running an lines off the heads to the pan, and making a deeper/wider addition to the pan to increase pan capacity to 10qts, and lowering the pick up tube.

i cant afford to keep replacing motors, but is 3qts enough?

i do the drifty crap, so while you guys are shifting and the motor gets to catch up im just riding the revlimiter at 500mph slideways :rainbow:

not to spam my video in here, but this is the kinda **** my motor has to put up with. the part where theres no front bumper the motor actually lets go after that lap instantly, didnt even start knocking just grenaded all over the track like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhQXEz06v7s

i'd really like to go full dry but i cant afford it, i cant afford to replace motors constantly either, but im trying to figure out the most efficient solution possible.

and before anyone starts, yah drifting isnt racing, yah its gay, yah you care too much. the topic is ls1's have shitty oiling, and how do we fix that.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

since ls1's have a roller cam does an oil restrictor help this problem?

Speedpup

Accusump is fine in my car for 4-5 years. Real nice dry sump is better but probably 6-7,000 by the time you are done.

roy

Mike that was a wicked video and yes 3 qts is just right . Also are you overfilling by1 qt also?

OKcruising

You could design a reservoir'd pressurized oil system, but as I understand it, it uses a pressure system, so you cant actually add extra capacity without the means to push it. You could probably run a "backup" system that you have set so that when the primary tank is depleted, the secondary comes online.

However, you'll still have a compromised system at extreme durations.

You could take it one step further and look at the idea of a roaming pickup like the new viper acr, which would help you considerably.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

i've been running 7qts since day 1 with a gto pan.




OKCruising, what is this roaming pickup you speak of?

Steve Rea

iTrader: (1)

We just completed the 25 Hours of Thunderhill with just an Accusump on our 2001 Camaro LS1 engine. The engine had about 27 track/race hours before the race without an accusump, then the 25 Hours of Thunderhill race. The oil pressure didn't drop during the race as it had previously without it, and the engine ran beautifully for the entire race.

I can't talk on the dry sump needs, as I don't have experience with it, but so far so good for the accusump on a full-out road race car.

Good luck,

Steve

OKcruising

imagine this as a cross section of a random pan
where x might be where the oil pickup is


||
|____________________|
..............x

What's wrong with this picture? When oil is sloshed to the sides due to lateral g's , the pickup in the base of the pan is not able to suck the oil.

A roaming pickup/swinging oil pickup, has the pickup able to go where the alteral g's are dictating it. I.e. 1.2g's in a left hand turn, all the oil is sloshing to the passenger side of the pan. The swinging pickup will also go to the passenger side because of inertia, which so happens to be where all the oil is. I believe the viper comp. coupes use this style.

For you mikespeed95, are you running an f-body pan? If you aren't using the vette pan, I could imagine that a swing arm could be made, like a free rotating hub, and an oil pickup is attached via a telescoping arm such that the pickup could change with height. Something like that, haha, theory says its not that hard. But it'd be next to impossible to do on a 'vette pan because of design me thinks.

I've never heard of someone in the GM world with a roaming/swinging pickup, so it'd be a pretty badass project to say the least, and a very space conscioius option over the accusump or dry sump.

Robert@SPEEDSOUTH

We're a dealer for these guys, the owner Gary Armstrong, is great to deal with and has been in the DS business for a very long time, I think he said the first time he displayed at SEMA was in 79! His company is known in the LSx world for producing the finest DS avail. and we're glad to be associated with him. There really is no substitute for a proper DS system, especially if your local track has a series of high G turns that could dry out an accusump res. Keep in mind too that even if you don't use the entire res. contents completely, you only use some, your engine still has to refill the res. robbing the engine of that portion of the capacity for a few moments until the res. is completely full again.

To read more about DS click this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump

I didn't quickly find one that explained accusumps, they can be referred to as oil accumulators as well.

Here's an e-mail I recieved from Gary the other day about his new pan that makes the most of the current LS7 system.

New Product Release!! ARE announces the all new LS 7 Dry Sump direct "bolt-on" pan. This replaces the factory oil pan, and utilizes the factory internal dry sump oil pumps. All factory Air Conditioner and drive ancillaries may be kept in place.

Here's a pic.
http://drysump.com/index1.htm

I would say OKcruising is right on target with the expense of a system once the entire project is taken into account. Keep in mind the additional plumbing and labor times will vary greatly from car to car, but I rationalized it on my personal vehicle knowing that I was going to have LSx engines in it for years to come and this is just something else I don't have to worry about, I'll move mine engine to engine. There are a series of turns at our local track, the Barber Motorsports Park, that if you watch the oil pressure on the HUD on a C5 you can actually see it begin to drop throughout that area and that is even on stock cars with nothing more than rear ZO6 wheels at all corners and Hoosiers.

Houston999, let me know if I can help.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

GTO pan. I was going to widen the front of it, but how would you make a pickup tube that swivels like that, but still seals at the swivel point?

i was just gonna deepen and widen the pan, to increase capacity, and lower the pickup tube till it was basically touching the bottom of the pan. i figured with the deeper/wider pan and more capacity, if you made it low enough that would help a lot with a 10qt capacity pan + accusump.

wish i could go drysump but not enough $$. sucks.

OKcruising

It's all good mikespeed. I'm really intrigued as to how your subframe and engine bay changes the oil pan requirement. You're on a pretty good track though I'd say, no pun intended.
Check this popular hotrodding link

This is a big block swinging pickup they use on the wedge engines


Here's a hotrod article on a dodge kit

Theres some good ideas you could possibly adapt from the big block dodge options; the last link might be the most of use however because of a better written article and more useful pictures. My idea of the swinging pickup may be a bit off for actual implementation, but the swing arm in the last article, picture 149954 i believe, is the idea I'm going for. Take the pickup assembly on the driverside, rotate 90* such that the pickup is more or less aiming towards the rear. Have the feedlines sealed at the pan boundary. That's about what I'm thinking. there's no way in hell you could do this with a vette pan*anywhere* near cost efficient, but the GTO pan, I'm personally unsure of, but if it's similar to the F-body or classic oil pan design you might be golden on easy implementation.




An aside:

Oh yea, Speedsouth, Armstrong knows his stuff definitely and his stuff is top notch. I'm actually smack dab in the middle of installing a system(ditching A/C) onto my C5Z, the pan alone is oodles and gobs of goodness. But as the concept goes, unless 100% absolutely mandatory, save dry sump for the final end-all-be-all option. I made the jump because I know of a similar car that went through quite a few engines on a wet sump system ('vette, slicks, motons etc), and after years of annoyance with unreliable engines of foreign makes, I'm not in any mood to do much internal engine work, it's the reason I went with GM products across the board.

Haha, I was kinda curious when Gary's new LS7 pan was going to be released speak of the devil. If the new ZR1/BD still uses the original LS7 pan design, I'll be kinda disappointed at GM's decision.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for those links.

also from the pic's ive seen ls9 doesnt seem to have a pump, or anywhere to have anything to drive the belt for a dry sump pump. it was totally badass but i think they realized it wasnt really needed, and ended up being more of a hassle than it was worth. it brought dry sump out in the open for most people, which i think is enough for them.


also what are yalls thoughts on oil restrictors for the lifters? do i need to run solid lifters with an oil restrictor? i kinda know how the lifters work on a ls1, and that they are rollers, but i'm not sure on how much pressure is really needed to pump them up all the way so they dont collapse, but i know an oil restrictor will also help with the problem of too much oil in the heads.

i'd really like to attack this from every way possible.

mikespeed95

iTrader: (1)

i found this site about electric oil pumps...

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm

i'm really liking the asa setup, using a scavenge pump to fill a tank to feed the stock oil pump, im really liking that idea from a cost/function standpoint.

im not trying to cheap out, but this would be a much easier option, im just curious yall's thoughts on it.

i can get the ati damper at drysump.com for around 500 (anywhere better)

and the pump/bracketry and stuff is another 1000 at least, just wondering if theres a cheaper way.

still cheaper than a new motor, but saving money is saving money.



also these ASA dry sump kits, where the hell do i find just the bracket/scavenge pump?

i can get the pans from lingenfelter, the dampers from drysump.com, the lines/tank from anywhere, but where do you get the scavenge pump/bracket for scavenge pump?




i think im probably going to get this moroso accusump system from lingenfelter for 200 bux anyways , and use it for starting the car either way. i think this'd be nice to hook up, but i'd like to figure out a way to open/close the valve from inside the car. be nice to have it near my switchpanel so its more routine.

kill switch on, open accusump, ignition, fuel, start, accessories.

then to kill car, close accusump, ignition, fuel, kill.