JoeNova

So I'm working on another project and I have to decide which direction to go on the transmission soon. I have 3 main concerns. Cost, durability, and weight.

I'm going to be running a ~550 HP flywheel 4.8 for the rest of the year and eventually upgrade to a 5.3 with a cam for another 150 HP or so (I have a fresh 4.8 sitting around that was almost free).

The car itself is just a toy. An extremely light toy. Less than 2500 lbs wet with driver. I'm actually aiming for somewhere in the 2100 lb range. It will likely never see slicks, never see the quarter mile. Occasional street driving, probably burnouts and horseplay most of the time.

Most of the time, I would go straight for a 4L80e. However I don't need overdrive, lockup, or the extra 100 lbs from converter and trans. I don't trust a 4L60e with anything because I do a couple of LS swaps a month and I have to rebuild every single 4L60e I get from the donor because they're always broken. Also, if I don't use an electronic trans I can just opt for Microsquirt. I plan to build the transmission myself so there won't be labor costs either.

Cores are usually no more than $100 for a good working trans.

I've been looking at the TH350. It seems I can build the trans and run a cheap JEGS 800 HP converter and be all said done for around $1000 (I already have a great core). Possibly a TH400 since the weight difference between them is minimal.

Does anyone else have a good recommendation, maybe a link to a full kit that would get the job done so I wouldn't have to piece one together?

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

Th350 done properly should be fine. And since that is very similar to a 4l60e I will say that will be fine also. A higher mileage pull out probably isnt the best choice for the long haul but a properly built 60e with some basic upgrades will handle what most guys throw at it.

JoeNova

I'm not most guys. I've broken hard parts in a 60e as recent as 2 weeks ago and would prefer to avoid one completely. TH350 parts are typically cheaper anyway, so no point in complicating things with a 60e if there isn't a greater purpose.

clinebarger

I never really thought as a TH350 being similar to a 700/4L60. Other than the Lo-Reverse clutch & Center Support their 2 completely different designs.

JoeNova, A TH350 or a TH400 will serve you well, I prefer TH400's in anything making north of 600hp, But your car is light & that can keep a TH350 alive. Though I would still prefer a TH400.

No help with a "kit", Take Pump Gears for a TH350 for example.....You have to order by thickness.......Hell, Do kits even come with Pump Gears??
Do kits come with shims to set End-Play??

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I would expect someone with your knowledge to overthink that statement. I was making the simple comparison that in the automotive world the th350 is to the 700/4L as the th400 is to the 4l80. Not necessarily similar internally but in the placing on the totem pole, power handling, intended usage - and these being relative to the time/era they were being produced. Obviously the older versions being non-E, no lockup, no OD, but otherwise the same in overall application.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

4L80E all the way. The 100 pounds is like .10 of a second off a 1/4 mile time. And no...the 4L80E doesn't rob RWHP...not like people think anyway. Its not noticeable. Its all talk.

Why not have a transmission that will last you for years and years that you can beat the hell out of and grow along with your HP increases later on....and have the OD. 4L60E is not good and way too expensive as you mentioned.

.

JoeNova

-My Nova makes ~800whp and has a stock 80e with a Transgo HD2.
-The Trans Am I've been tuning just blew the 60e and I'm swapping in an 80e in preparation for the single turbo setup I'm putting on it this winter.
-The 3/4 tube chassis Malibu I'm building is running a TT 5.3 setup shooting for 8.50s SBE, and its running an 80e setup similar to whats in my Nova.

I fully understand the 80e merits.

Right now I'm building a senseless over-the-top turbo LS rat rod on a C4 corvette chassis that is more for attention than pure performance. Even 500 flywheel will be overwhelming in this thing. The fact that it will weigh ~2200 lbs helps a bit with making a trans live. The fact that it will also have the CHEAPEST tires I can possibly buy helps too. It will be for burnout competitions and car shows, made to melt a set of tires and set the back wheels on fire. I'm not really looking to add 100 or so lbs above what I need to. I just need a trans that is lightweight, will handle the type of abuse I'm giving it, and won't break the bank. Being manual VB helps control gear/RPM very easily.

I have half a dozen 4L60e transmissions sitting around waiting on a rebuild for future swap projects. I also have a perfectly good TH350 too.
I just don't think an 80e is necessary in this situation.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I guess not, but a junkyard 4L80E is $200.00. A simple rebuild kit and its WAY better and stronger than a 4L60E. If your project is not for performance than the extra 100 pounds is meaningless and you will never even feel it.

Everyone that told me going iron block for my new 390ci will cause the front end to feel different....dead wrong. The car feels 100% identical and handles identical. 100 pounds cannot affect a car, unless its a purpose built 1/4 mile competition, rail car, and then its only 1/10th of a second....rule of thumb.

I would just choose the badass, cheap as hell, WAY BETTER headache free 4L80E transmission over the more expensive, much weaker 4L60E. It will need rebuilds more often too.

.

JoeNova

The extra cost of the trans controller since I'm running microsquirt also pushes me away from an 80e.

I can get a just as headache free TH400 for less than an 80e and not have to worry about a trans controller. It also weighs 100 lbs less. As of right now, that seems to be the route I'm heading towards. No concerns with input/output shafts, no concerns with bell or case.

clinebarger

I've built TH400's for Burn-Out contests, Raybestos "Waffle" HD High Energy Frictions in the Intermediates & Directs perform the best IMO. Like this....http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-TH400-TRA...-/261309509216

JoeNova

That's the type of suggestion I'm looking for.

Trans and a link to a suitable rebuild kit to point me in the right direction. Anything else you would suggest? It's possible that this particular setup hits the autocross a few times and maybe even a blast on the road course. I'll have no issues keeping the trans cool. RPM will stay below 6400. I've never been able to break a stock set of input and output shafts on a TH400 so I don't see the immediate need to replace too many hard parts in the 400.



I was planning to find a suitable manual valve body as well. I prefer an automatic in most circumstances, but I need more control for this particular setup.

FTICONVERTERS

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you've already made up your mind on a TH400 which is an excellent choice by the way. We have ALL the necessary parts to build a quality unit in stock. Check out these rebuild kits and our other parts and let me know what you think!

http://ftiperformance.com/product/th...al-valve-body/

http://ftiperformance.com/product/th...-intermediate/

http://ftiperformance.com/product/th...n-brake-f009b/

EDIT: We can take of all your converter needs as well.

JoeNova

Another good reply. Links to needed parts.
I'll definitely consider you guys for manual valve body and converter needs. I'm still researching rebuild kits and possible hard parts to replace while I'm in there. Going to attempt rebuild myself.

FTICONVERTERS

iTrader: (3)

Sounds great! we have all the hard parts you'll need as well.

JoeNova

I'm picking up a TH400 core in a couple of days. I'll likely be ordering a manual VB from FTI. As far as rebuild, I'm still looking at various kits. Most likely Raybestos or Borg clutches. Anything besides a manual VB and rebuild kit that I can do to help the trans live?

clinebarger

A HD Intermediate Snap Ring.
If you core has Steel Pistons, Get rid of those & run the Aluminum ones, I have seen the steel ones come apart (The outer Lip Seal retainer is just pressed on).
Some High Rate Direct Clutch return springs is a good idea if your going to be twisting it tight in 1st gear.

john kilgore

joe, drill a .060 hole in the direct drum as far out to the edge of the bottom where the piston sets. that keeps the direct piston applying in first gear. need more tricks let me know

JoeNova

I like tricks!

I posted a similar question on a vette forum and was hit with a load of backlash. For some reason, everyone there seems to think it's blasphemy to use anything other than the 700r4. With a 3.07 rear gear, I don't need overdrive. I also don't plan on taking any long highway trips in a ridiculous rat rod either.

I read that the TH350 can be made a direct bolt in using the C4 700r tailshaft housing to mate to the C frame. Someone convinced me to go this way for a minute, offering to sell me a built TH350 with a brake, input shaft and Sprag and 3800 stall converter for $800. Then I found out for the bolt in to work I have to use the 9" tailshaft version.

Ultimately, I'm back at TH400 and making my own bracket to mate it to the stock torque arm.

imma_stocker

iTrader: (19)

Considering vehicle weight and hp the TH350 will do fine. Doesn't sound like you'll be adding brake and turning 9k rpm.

Really I think this will come down to best deal and gearing preference.