jrp

iTrader: (16)

a few months back Gunnar came to me with a proposition to look at and have tested a new and improved 'ls6' style head off the shelf. I took him up on his offer mainly out of my own curiosity and to once and for all have some concrete independent data to share with the board. I told him people would most likely think that he sent me a ringer head but he assured me he had not. after testing i have no reason to believe they are there are anything else but a standard off the shelf head. I hooked up with Steve from Race Engine Development to do the flowing and specing. He had flowed and spec'd my own FFHP/TEA heads a while back so i was very interested to see the comparison. Test were done on the same bench (sf1020), same bore (3.90), same radius plate, same 1.75" pipe. the only difference was the intake the PP head was flowed with was not my own but a different ls6 intake. take that for what its worth. now on to the good stuff as the results suprised me to say the least .

*standing in this corner we have the PP "ls6" comming in at:*

*pic size 1280 x 960*

Combustion Chamber
Bowl Area
Intake Bowl
Exhaust Bowl
Intake Port
Intake Port 2
Exhaust Port
Exhaust Port 2
Intake Valve
Intake Valve 2
Exhaust Valve
Viton Seal and Seat Base

*standing across the ring we have the FFHP/TEA lightweight comming in at:*

Combustion Chamber
Bowl Area
Intake Bowl
Exhaust Bowl
Intake Port
Exhaust Port


*Ding, Ding, Ding: The fight is under way*









*not on the sheet but the head was tested to .650 where flow came out to 303.4 on the intake and 191 on the exhaust*





*Radius Plate vs LS6 intake on the PP head*





Well, those are the cold hard numbers. now i know alot of you are looking at the exhaust flow and going , i did the same thing when i saw my own. i dont know how most sponsors or others flow there exhaust ports but the way Steve did mine and the first PP exhaust numbers was with a 1.75" pipe with a 90* bend in it to simulate an actual header port like so (my first FFHP/TEA head). So to see if he could get numbers akin to what you are used to seeing he flowed the PP again but this time with a 2.25" pipe straight pipe he had laying around that he normally uses for big blocks. as you can see with the big diameter straight pipe flow increased dramatically. But ask yourself which one is more realistic, last time i checked exhaust tubing didnt jet straight out from the head. The cfm lossed through the intake on the PP head really suprised me. When steve told me the radius plate numbers i extrapolated the max loss from my own heads which was about 30cfm and assumed the PP's would flow ~270 through the intake. As you can see, its far from it. On top of that they loose out alot of midrange (.200 - .500) compared to my heads. Only after .500 lift do they exceed my heads.

Interesting thing to take note on. with the radius plate the PP's average flow is 187.72 on the intake while mine is 184.64. Now, strap on the intake because after all our cars arent run on the bench. Average flow through the ls6 intake on the PP was 168.70 while mine was 171.34. Now can you guys see why peak flow doesnt mean **** and why you must flow your head through an intake, whether it be ls1/ls6/lsx, to get an accurate view of your heads performance.

Concerning craftsmanship, the only negative thing steve had to say was " The intake retainer hits the valve seal at around .580" lift. I forced it down a bit to check the flow at .600" and .650". You should maintain .060" clearance from retainer to seal. In other words, the guides need to be cut down a bit "

The springs werent check but since they were PP Golds (obviously) my numbers from when steve checked mine should suffice:

PP Golds (independent)

seat: 143 lbs @ 1.800
open: 363 @ 1.200
coil bind: 1.060
Clearance: .140
spring rate: 367

At any rate, i hope someone finds this info useful, i know i did. I'd also like to thank Gunnar for the opportunity to check out the head and to Steve for doing the flowing and specing

foff667

iTrader: (2)

another great writeup thanks

TVWilkes

If the valve job was slightly changed the FF/TEA heads would not fall off after .500 lift.I believe a 5.3L intake port,ported vs. ported is better than the LS6.The LS6 exhaust port is slightly better than the 5.3L.In the real world,I would rather have the heads taht flow better from .200-.500 than after .500.There will be more air going thru the intake runner,thru the complete valve lift cycle.Did steve measure the air intake velocity?

jrp

iTrader: (16)

the port that fell of was cyl 5, cyl 1 did not fall of as hard, stalled just past .550. as you can see thouogh with the intake strapped on the flow is smoothed out. i agree low and midlift numbers are more important then just peak. i dont believe steve measured the air velocity, though it would of been interesting to see considering the 9cc port volume difference.

TVWilkes

Thanks, for the test JRP.

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

Thanx jrp.

See5

iTrader: (53)

Great post. Not the resullts I expected.
Thanks!

XtrmLS1spd

iTrader: (6)

I have been considering two different heads. That is FFHP stage 2's (which uses PP heads) and MTI stage 2e's. After lloking at the information, it seems to help alot, but I am still torn between the two. Anyone care to chime in (I have searched and read about everything possible)?

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

The Patriot's good flow above .500 shows they have the ports large enough to flow the air, but it looks like they need a better valve job to flow higher numbers at the mid lifts...the lifts that really count. Maybe with a killer valve job and hand blending, the PP heads would be winners.

BoneSS

iTrader: (9)

Also interested in this. What do you think JRP? I know you know the skills of FFHP--do you think their hand porting of these heads bring the numbers up to where they should be?

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

Good information and well written. It would nice to see other heads tested independently and saved in an archived database for research.

NLang

iTrader: (12)

I certainly respect those that take time out of busy schedules to make such contributions for those lacking the sorces to perform such tests themselves. To Steve, Gunnar, and most of all, JRP,

Happy New Year Fellas!

69_YENKO

iTrader: (16)

another great job done by JRP

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

I would like a mag like GM HIGH TECH to do a cylinder head shootout like other magazines do but with the LS1 head market. Select like 10-15 top cylinder head companies to send a set of very simular set up heads to have a flow bench throwdown by the same bench and same dude operating it. I think, like this thread shows, that the results will be eye opening in some areas. Just a thought.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

that suggestion has been brought up several times over the years but no go. instead we get stuff like a lid shoot out

results like this are very interesting. would of been interesting to test another port as well. my first set of FFHP/TEA heads i had all ports tested ono the head. there was an 8-12cfm varience. on my new FFHP/TEA head i had two ports tested and there was an ~8cfm port varience. the port compared to the PP head is the one that read higher. cyl one read a little lower. so when port varience is applied you could say that the PP's fall within the advertised range.

hellbents10

iTrader: (10)

I would like to try my heads that I have been working on. I have a set of 317's. I have done some pretty decent work to the intake and exuast both I would like to flow them with stock valves on a 4" bore seens how they are going on my 6.0l. Then flow them with some bigger ss valves and a nice valve job.

jrp

iTrader: (16)

well, the first set of FFHP/TEA heads were not up to brads standards so we started from scratch with a new 241 casting. sent the head back to TEA (not sure if the same cnc'ing was done) and then brad personally hand finished them and did the assembly. all same testing conditions and the only thing being the reworked head netted me an average of 20cfm across the board. same port volumes and valve size as well.

So assuming brad does valve job and hand finishing i see no problem with using a PP casting. MTI's 2e's are proven head as well. heres an mti 2e flow sheet a member posted a while back. just to give you some kind of idea.

Grant B

Do only the AFR and LS6 heads have a quench pad on the spark plug side? That could be why. I had never seen pics of an LS1 head like this before, I didn't know there where some LS heads with only 1 quench pad. I'm sure it helps flow, but could hurt power and det. resistance.

Great post. I wish EDC would get back to me about that cam...

Bo White

iTrader: (59)

The last set I had flowed varied by 7 cfm from worst to best on the intake side and none on the exhaust, thought that wasnt too bad.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Does HP and TQ curves count or flow numbers count?

OR is it 1/4 mile ET's that count?

Yeah it would be nice to see a one bench flowing a lot of heads. AS LONG AS THE HEADS WERE NOT RINGERS, so some no name guy has to buy them all, not ask for "deals because it's a magazine article" and go from there.

THEN IT'S A GREAT IDEA.