RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

It's time to call upon the help of the old schoolers.




Before I bought my '98, I daily drove a 1980 Formula. Harvy got me back and fourth to work reliably for two years with a sluggish poncho 400/TH400 combo. A few weeks after buying the Camaro, I passed the old bird onto my little brother. He's been tearing it down and restoring it little by little, and he just started high school this week. I reckon I'll just cut to the chase.

I figure the cheapest way to get him to and from school reliably, and decently quick, would be to get rid of the Pontiac 400 and drop a 350 Chevy between the wheels. The issue is, he's going to be saving up or selling what he's got to pay for most of this.

Let's put our heads together and see what would be an inexpensive, yet reliable way to build him a fun little smallblock. I'm not asking for a speed demon, but I'd like it to have enough guts to manage high 13s.

I figure we can sell off the engine that's in it to pay for a small block to begin with. I was also considering selling the transmission too, but all it needs to bolt up to the sbc is a simple adapter. If we use the trans, then it's good from there back. We'd just need an engine to bolt to it. I'm not too well versed in old school Chevrolet, but I'm interested in the Vortec heads.

I'm trying to see exactly what we need to look for and what combination of parts could get us about where we need to be for as little coin as possible. I'll start with a couple questions.


- Recommended platforms to scrounge up a decent factory shortblock?
- Vortecs my best bet? What exactly to look for?
- Recommended cam for a box stock set
- BOP to Chevy trans' adapter. Would this require anything as far as custom stalls, flywheels, or flexplates?


That's really all I can think of at the moment, but more is likely to come. If I can get a heads up, we can start collecting parts and drawing up plans to get this done.



1980 Firebird Formula
- roughly 3,400lbs
- stock TH400
- stock stall
- 8.5 with a 3.42 posi
- drag radials




Any help would kick ***

shaolink9

well heres my opinion ......

350 or 355 IN good condition with vortecs or maybe some world products iron heads, they are pretty cheap now. cam...something between .470 and .500 lift should get the job done. stock vortech wont take more than about .420 lift max though.
castings end in 062 and 906 mught be others h=just dont kno them.
also you may want to look into the fastburn heads from gmpp i recal those being fairly affordable. gOOD luck!

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

How cheap are we talking? Is this a $500 build? $1500?

For "super cheap", I'd do the following.

These are Jegs part numbers (because it's the catalog I have handy):

$12.99 each 844-H345NP30 Speed pro .030 over hypereutectic pistons
$29.99 (Set) 844-E251x30 Speed Pro cast iron rings (.030 over)
$17.99 220-C3001K Cloyes economy double roller timing set
$2.99 each 695-CB663P Clevite 77 rod bearings
$24.99 695-MS909P Clevite 77 main bearings
$59.99 070-134-6403 ARP "Wave loc" rod bolts (have the rods resized and the bolts changed)

OR:

$199.99 942-357700P Scat 4340 forged "stock replacement" rods (may be cheaper than having the old ones rebuilt)
$179.99 249-cl12-210-2 comp cams "high energy 268" cam kit (cam, lifters and assembly lube). .454 lift
$127.99 350-2101 Edelbrock performer intake
$112.99 387-11100 Flowtech headers

Check/reuse the stock crank, water pump, oil pan, timing cover, and carb (retuning may be required) and have the block bored .030 over and get a gasket set for your year block. If you get a block with a decent carb and intake, skip the intake. If you find the stock rods are decent (I'd still change the bolts and have them resized), use them and save the cash. Use the heads you get on the engine (a 64cc head would be perfect with this setup). And get valve springs to go with that cam. If you need an oil pan, etc, order a budget one. Fine tune this as needed, but this setup will build a decent motor that sounds cool, makes some power and he can have fun with and not go bankrupt in the process.

This engine should make decent power to 5,500-5,700 rpm. It should live "forever" at that RPM and it will have a mild lumpy idle and still get decent fuel mileage (potentially).

My thoughts, others will vary.

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

The plan was to reuse as much as possible to keep costs down. Since 350s were factory stuff in 2nd gens, things like oil pans, mounts, and brackets should be pretty cut and dry. Most of this will be junkyard sourced and rebuilt. I've found Jegs brand longtubes for less than $100.00 and the old 400 has a recently rebuilt Edelbrock sitting on top of it. It's a 600cfm if I remember correctly.


Parting out or selling the 400 as a whole is going to cover some of the costs. I figure I can get a little out the Edelbrock intake, '69 #16 heads, and the shortblock. The thing runs pretty good, but has too big a cam for the stock stall and the current rear is cursed with an open differential and 2.41 gears. It's turdly to say the least.

When I say cheap, I mean highschool punk who saves his lunch money and cuts grass for a living cheap. Saving over the next few months and selling what he's got will finance most of this. Hopefully pops will run across a good deal or two.


I appreciate the input so far as thanks for the part numbers. Time to look a few of them up and do a little research.




Still at loss as to whether or not to run Vortecs and the quirks of a BOP to chevy trans adaptor

jetlag

iTrader: (32)

My ole 81 'Vette had some Vortec heads on it.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

Cool. The 600 will work fine for this. Dig up a pre 1986 motor (with a two piece rear main seal), throw the standard version of those rings in it, toss the bearings in it, a fresh oil pump, add that cam and lifters with the timing chain and the Performer intake with a set of the "$100 headers" and you're on your way. At a later date you guys can update heads and such if the budget is there. You can put the whole thing together for $650 (plus the cost of the engine). Or, find an engine with a 4 barrel intake and skip the performer and save some cash there. You can always bolt it on later. Skipping the intake will save a bit over $100. That will get you down to "pretty cheap".

trailwart

the stock vortec heads are good for .475 lift, not .420 . if it was me i would find a vortec 350 from a 96-99 trucks/suburban or they were in the vans up to 2002. then you would have a roller and not have the issues with using flat tappet cams. ive seen them as pullouts for under a grand with all the fi stuff on them. you could sell the fi stuff and get the hot cam and buy the beehive spring kit and your good on lift up a little over .500 and the vortecs fall off at that point so more than .500 lift is useless. with selling what you have and going the route i suggested you should be able to do it for 1k or less.

RaggedRides

iTrader: (8)

I've run across a stock shortblock that was pulled from an '88 TA. Roller, correct?

It's local, and supposedly ran fine when pulled. The fellow wants $250.00 for it, and I was going to offer $200. Would this be a decent buy if everything checks out?

If the walls, bearings, crank, and everything looks to be in good condition, it might be near good to go.

krazy4

iTrader: (5)

$200 is very cheap. If everything checks out okay, I say get it.

ici8uup

keep the poncho!!! wake up that lazy 400 with some 6x heads a good cam and some good pistons! they run real strong just don't like the revs(large main berings) a good intake i think you'll like it