Formula350

iTrader: (3)

Been looking at LEDs and how insanely bright they've gotten. Some may think that they still can't compare to headlights, but that's become a thing of the past. I've not really found any good links showing what the candela rating of a standard lowbeam is, but pictures I've seen of these Luxeon Endor Rebel-Star Single LED is pretty impressive.

This is with 3x Single LED versions


Now, what I would want to use would be 3x THREE LED models. As a comparison, the Single LED model puts out 435lumens @ 700mA, and the Triple LED does 540lm @ 700mA. As you can see in that pic, those 3x Singles are only running @ 465mA, so about 300lm (240lm @ 350mA is their spec). I'd say, for under-powering them, they are quite bright. They're also all pointed in the same direction, and we could simply mount them so they have a tad more spread pattern to them.

They also QUITE small, so if you actually wanted to pack more than 3 in a headlight lense, you could. They're only 21mm across at their widest, and w/o the focusing fixture, 3.9mm thick. The lense also 21mm wide and 10mm high, but that includes the 3.9mm. So it's .82in x .39in, otherwise known as REALLY small. Now, they do need to be cooled, but from my understanding, a passive heatsink would work fine, and a computer heatsink could work AOK for that, and are cheap to obtain. If you're still worried about heat, computer fans are 12v as well, so mounting a small one behind them would keep them well with in operating temps! (Recommended Operating temp is less than 212ºF)

Now, for the bad part. Each Triple LED runs $36 and the lense is $5, and you'd also have to make a regulator for voltage and amperage.

The better part. If you compare what an HID kit costs (what, $450 for a fairly decent one, and $900 for quality?), to what this could cost ($250 at the most, but $144 for 4 LEDs, 2 per side) AND factor in the life of an HID bulb (3K hrs) vs these LEDs (50K hrs), it's pretty close! The color temp of these is 6,500 as well, which is actually in the HID range. If you threw in one of the 120lm blue LEDs, you could change the temp a bit I'm sure Brightness of a HID is where I'm also a bit confused over. It shows 3200lm, that per-side or is that 2 bulbs? If it's per side, then you're looking at $360 in LEDs (5 per side) and 50 in lenses. + the $15~ a side for power regulation and the heatsink. Keep in mind, that 5 per side, is based off of the LENSELESS 540lm. With a 23º lense, that focuses it to equal around 680lm (assuming my math is right, probably not). So it's now 4.7 per side Or 4 per side if you want to get near-HID, unless you want to throw in a single LED into the mix.

So that's where the electrician 1/2 comes in, and this is where your fabrication 1/2 comes in! Basically, you'd need to lop off the glass cover on the headlight (I don't know of a safe way, that cement glue they use is something else!) and then rig in a bracket to hold these on, and make sure they're level. Not to mention, depending what kind of spread pattern you want, make a way to test that out before it's all set-in-stone. Thankfully though, that required less of an explanation than the rest of the idea

Part numbers and literature:
Triple LED 540lm
http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebe...00ma-p-183.php
Triple LED 435lm ($18, substantially less)
http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebe...00ma-p-179.php

Single LED 180lm ($15, for comparison)
http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebe...00ma-p-182.php

Lense for all Endor Rebel Star's
http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-star...leds-p-391.php

The $36 quote is from a site off Google, which I can't seem to find now :\ Still, $38-36 isn't a huge difference. Plus, if you buy 10 from Luxeon, it's $36 And if a few people decide this is a good idea, the bulk buy keep sgetting better heh

So aside from me clearly being a nut and having too much time on his hands, opinions.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

So I take it no one liked my crazy idea, eh? :\

KEE AUDIO

iTrader: (65)

I actually think that this is a good idea and could work. I often have thought about alternative illumination options for headlights that give off large amounts of light without having the traditional type filament bulbs.
Good idea...keep thinking about it and see if you can come up with a practical application!!

ZexGX

iTrader: (28)

May be easier to hack off the back of the sealed-beam enclosure than trying to separate the glass from the front edge. There's a writeup on FullThrottleV6 for opening the sealed beam enclosures to put Sylvania Silverstars in them... Pretty straightforward though if you think about it.

dragonrage

You're going to want at least 2500 lumens per lamp. Though LEDs are still going to be more efficient than halogen at any amount of light.

6500K is as high as you should ever go. 3500 to 5000K is much better for headlights.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

I consider this to be fairly practical, but I think for fairly uncharted territory (other than the high end cars like the Audi R8, even though it seems to only have ringed LEDs) for a personal mod. With that said, it might not be a bad idea to maybe mod Fog Lights first. They would only take 1 of those Tri LEDs and I'm sure it would be at least on par with a bulb. Then you're looking at just 2 of them and the reduction circuitry. Problem is, I am only an Imagineer (Disney term, for those who are great at coming up with ideas, yet in Disney's case those who can imagine things) and have very very limited integrated circuit electronics knowledge. I love computers and know about them, but when it gets down to all the resistors, capacitors, diodes and transistors I'm lost All I know is, I bought 2 UV (Black Light) LEDs from Radio Shack, and they are specced at like 3.6v @ 20mA and 4.3v max. Yet I have 3 1.5v tiny button batteries for a total of (they're old) 4.6v and 170mA and the UV LEDs don't burn out. So, I don't think we have to be EXACT on making a reduction board as far as current. That, and I don't know precisely how our car's work. I know it's a 13-14.2v (14.2v being the upper average for Alt output) and that on say my 93 Firebird it's a 120A alternator. What I don't quite get, is if the Alt puts out 120A all the time (obviously at a higher RPM then idle) or if it can SUPPLY that if the system requires that much draw. Say if you had high beams on and the stereo cranked up (mines the factory 10 speaker). I know that even then my Alt doesn't flinch. What I'm getting at is this: If the car puts out 120A everywhere, those LEDs are toast If the LEDs only draw what they need and aren't force fed all that, I think the circuitry would be quite a bit simpler. So then really all you'd need to do is get a Buck Converted with a max input voltage of 16v (to be safe) and an adjustable output of 7-10v, which they have. I've been researching that exact thing for a computer project, but vastly different. And if we don't have to protect the LEDs from the Amperage, we could probably just use a few Zener Diodes in parallel to do what we need. Or we could also do an adjustable setup with a Potentiometer to have it for a High and Low beam Fog Light

Sorry if all that is rambling :\ Just spewing out ideas and thoughts. If I had $75-100 to drop down on tinkering, I'd do this in a HEART beat, even though my Formula doesn't have fogs. Just to get a prototype out there for anyone else interested, so we can see how well it performs. And if anything, I can rig it up for a killer flashlight like most people do

Here's an example of that Buck Converter (stepdown), which pretty much SHOULD take care of everything perfectly. Can do up to a max of 1A output, which the Triple LED ones run @ .7A (700ma) so that's fine, and the voltage is adjustable via resistor, so my Potentiometer for adjustable brightness can work too! The price is quite small as well, $5 per unit. I'm not sure if 1 will power 2 LEDs or not, but still it isn't too bad.
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4774

Can buy one here: (The MAX5080ATE+ @ $4.78)
https://shop.maxim-ic.com/storefront...ndAvailability
Or request a sample from a local distributor and get 1-2 free:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/4774/t/or


I did think about the back end, but it's all glass, is the problem. I figured that removing the part where the glass joins together, would be safer to do, rather than trying to cut a brittle material :\ I'm sure a fine tooth band saw could do it, but I don't have one of those If anything, we could always get the capsule headlight replacements off eBay for the $20~ they go for, for 2. My buddy did that with his Vette.


That 2500 still falls into my 4.7 (4.629∞)Triple LEDs per side. And for the trial Fog Light setup, I'm not sure what a H3 does, obviously it partly depends on the beam focus.

If one could get the LED itself and fill the other 3 slots (they mention doing that on their website), you could get one of these and run 720lumens per Star as apposed to 540. For color, it's either 6500K or this 4100K, which isn't as bright.

If you're REALLY good at soldering and with this lense (the lambertian pattern may work great with the original headlight housing) to focus the beam, these little guys would kick quite a bit of ***. Cram about 8 in a conical shape (given that the lense isn't used) like a standard bulb, but I'm thinking more like cone w/ steps though, you would have quite the beam going on.

Just more rambling, sorry :\

EDIT: Here's a quick sketch showing that stepped cone I was talking about. From my understanding of Lambertian pattern, it spreads light everywhere, just like a bulb, and needs a lense to focus is, like our headlight housing.

ZexGX

iTrader: (28)

No worries. It's great when people take the time to type like they are actually talking in person - makes it easier to understand. Anyways, I think Dave would be a great help here... He made LED tail lights for his Camaro and could probably share his knowledge with you. Username here is fast01z28 (I think)

Here's the writeup he did for the taillights:
http://6litereaterdesigns.com/forum/...32.0;topicseen

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

If I get some extra money to actually get the LEDs, I might give him a holler. ATM I was just posting all this in case someone else would be interested in it, but not know where to start looking for bright enough LEDs.

Thanks though

KEE AUDIO

iTrader: (65)

It's thinking outside the box like this that makes newer, better technology come about! If I were in better shape right now and had more time I'd try to help you out because I would be interested in something like this for my car.
Unfortunately I'm recovering from my back surgery and having to train a friend of mine on how to run my business while I recover.
When I get back on my feet again....I'd like to see what options you have come up with and see if a working prototype could be fashioned...if anything just for personal use as I hate my headlights and foglamps I have now.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

I come up with so many bloody ideas every day :\ I have a a huge thread in the LS4 FWD forum on what could be a possible better exhaust option than what is stock, due to there not being any headers available. It just borrows the manifolds and oil pans from other GEN III/IV motors too, so it's not even having to fab much of anything. I tried a few sponsors on here, but no one was interested heh Oh well.

Then I had an idea for a split-design Opti Spark cap that would, I think, allow a cap and rotor change w/o having to remove the water pump and crank hub. That isn't quite as easy as making some LED headlights or swapping some OE engine parts to another vehicle

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

With the cost of some of those 'dimmer' ones being only around $5, and then $5 for a lense. I might at least nab one of those to see how bright one is, and the distance of the beam. I ripped this LED out of the bottom of a lighter (intended to be used as a flashlight) and with just 3 1.5v batteries, it's pretty damn bright. It absolutely SMOKES my 1xAAA Mag Light, and this little guy is (even with batteries and the plastic housing) is 1/3 the size of that Mag

So, if/when I do get a LED from them, I'll for sure update everyone on how it is. It'll just be one of those 100-150LM ones though

lo_jack

iTrader: (27)

Have you considered popping one of those triple LED units into say, a 90mm projector and seeing what sort of pattern you get?

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

No, I think they're ugly, but I'm sure it'd produce a nice beam If you have one, or access, I say nab a single LED version and give it a try.

dragonrage

Not nearly enough brightness from 1.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

I'm sure he knows heh

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

Small update since I'm most likely going to order SOMETHING heh For the cost, I'm leaning towards the 200lm single LED as it's only $9. Compared to the $15 of the Single LED versions I talked about earlier, that are a fair amount dimmer. So here's where the update comes in: I was perusing the site for 'related items' and came across the exact voltage buck controller!! They're much cheaper than the other idea I had. These will run quite a few LEDs, given the input voltage is high enough. It would seem that for our 12-14v auto application that one "Buck Puck" should be able to drive, I think assuming I understand it right, 3 LEDs. Or if I'm wrong, then 2 LEDs heh. It may seem low, and it is, but these LEDs suck 3.1-3.9v!

Anyways, here's what I'm probably going to order up for now:
1x Luxeon K2-TFFC LED - White Lambertian (6500k) 200 lm @ 1000mA
1x BuckPuck 1000mA DC LED Driver (With Leads) (Or possibly A MicroPuck if I want to make a flashlight)
1x Fraen Narrow Beam Lens

I am for sure going to email them before I go about dropping ~$30 on this, to make sure I'm understanding things right and so forth.


A little pre-posting update. While going through the site's accessible files (modifying links) I came across a bigger driver module that can power a crapload of LEDS, and I think would work quite nicely for running either 1/2 or all of the LEDs for the car (1/2 would be low-beam and the other high-beam). I sadly can't find any mention of it on their site, but I haven't really checked yet as I want to get this post finished and not have it be a damn Codex Anyways it's the 4016 QuadPuck. As with no mention, comes no price. But there is an automotive intended version that is $17 and totally enclosed for weather protection. I'm a bit confused however on all of the ratings for it. These are saying they can drive X Type LED in Y Quantity. Yet the LEDs they're listing share the same power requirements as most of the others that are 2-4x brighter. Anyways, that one is the 2008B PowerPuck. And I might just get that instead if one of these LEDs I plan to get turns out to be bright enough for fog lights Only downfall of it, is that it doesn't have an adjustable current vs it's non-sealed $17.99 equivalent.

ZexGX

iTrader: (28)

http://www.acriche.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp4.asp
New LED that produces 240 lumens @ 1A from a single driver vs yours... Found it while looking for quality LED flashlights - not sure where to buy some though. Any progress on this?

Mike454SS

iTrader: (4)

As cool as it looks...I think you might run into problems with glare into other drivers eyes...and then they might accidentally hit you. I think the lighting world will have LED lights more specifically intended for healights (better optics to keep the light on the road and out of oncoming traffics eyes) in the very near future...I wouldn't bother to try to retrofit anything for now.

Camaro guys looking for more light...get some HIR bulbs, you can find them on ebay...they're a BIG improvement, and the work with the stock reflectors and optics.

ZexGX

iTrader: (28)

Naturally I'd want to put these into a projector light system so there is a cutoff and low glare...

Don't you mean HIDs?? We all know about them, and they have their various issues too. They are awesome though.

Formula350

iTrader: (3)

They do put out 240lm, but (and I don't know about the Luxeons) that's only @ an operating temp of 25ºC. If it's @ 50ºC (122ºF), then it's about 95% of that (that's under the 350mA graph, as there is no 1A), so about 228lm. Still more than the Luxeon, but can you find the Seoul Semiconductor LED anywhere in quantities of just 1? A quick google I came up with some being over 500 :S Not very experiment friendly heh

As for progress, no I haven't quite ordered the stuff yet heh :\ I'll hopefully get around to it this week, but I want to make sure there's no "SURPRISE!" costs for getting my transmission's case swapped.

The lighting pattern of these are Lambertian, which is much like light bulbs. So if one was to just slap the LED into the original headlight housing, you'd be looking at the same pattern as the original bulb. You could always put a blocker or reflector in front of them (like many housings already do) to keep light from shining into oncoming traffic or to reflect it out to the housing so it's bounced out like the rest of the light.