Fairly Easy Ground / BIG 3/4 Questions from an electrical n00b
08-20-2010, 01:27 AM
#1
Fairly Easy Ground / BIG 3/4 Questions from an electrical n00b Hi I have a 99Z and I have the supplies needed to do, in my case, what i would describe to be the BIG 4:
1. - battery to chassis above battery
2. alternator to + battery
3. engine to chassis ground on driver side where the strap would be
4. - battery to block since my wire got too close to the headers and melted exposing the wire itself.
All wire is 0 gauge.
I am also trying to relocate some of the grounds for a cleaner looking engine bay.
My questions are:
1. Adding #4 to the BIG 3 setup is not going to hurt anything, right? I would not imagine so, but then again, I figure better be safe and ask than sorry.
2. Can you ground two wires of different gauges to the same spot and not have any issues? I would imagine so. For example, I believe I read that people sometimes add a thicker wire to where the ground strap on the passenger side connects the block and the chassis rather than replacing the strap with the thicker wire.
3. On the driver side, you can stack the grounds using the double sided screw/bolt that are below the shock tower bolts, to the right of the airbox and to the right of the ABS bracket in the same location using one bolt without having any issues, correct? I would imagine that this would not be a problem since I have the grounds on the back of the driver's side head stacked on each other using one bolt.
4. on the passenger side, can you take the ground to the left of the airbox and attach and hide it under the airbox using a radiator support bolt? I have no idea if the ring terminal or bolt head touching plastic would cause a problem.
Thank you very much in advance 'tech!
jdoyle
1. - battery to chassis above battery
2. alternator to + battery
3. engine to chassis ground on driver side where the strap would be
4. - battery to block since my wire got too close to the headers and melted exposing the wire itself.
All wire is 0 gauge.
I am also trying to relocate some of the grounds for a cleaner looking engine bay.
My questions are:
1. Adding #4 to the BIG 3 setup is not going to hurt anything, right? I would not imagine so, but then again, I figure better be safe and ask than sorry.
2. Can you ground two wires of different gauges to the same spot and not have any issues? I would imagine so. For example, I believe I read that people sometimes add a thicker wire to where the ground strap on the passenger side connects the block and the chassis rather than replacing the strap with the thicker wire.
3. On the driver side, you can stack the grounds using the double sided screw/bolt that are below the shock tower bolts, to the right of the airbox and to the right of the ABS bracket in the same location using one bolt without having any issues, correct? I would imagine that this would not be a problem since I have the grounds on the back of the driver's side head stacked on each other using one bolt.
4. on the passenger side, can you take the ground to the left of the airbox and attach and hide it under the airbox using a radiator support bolt? I have no idea if the ring terminal or bolt head touching plastic would cause a problem.
Thank you very much in advance 'tech!
jdoyle
08-20-2010, 07:45 AM
#2
#1. Adding an additional ground anywhere won't hurt anything but is not going to improve anything either. Also, having no insulation on a ground wire is not a problem - electrical insulation is unnecessary for grounds, it is used only to prevent corrosion.
#2, #3. You can stack grounds on the same bolt as long as the bolt/ring is large enough to handle the combined current of the stacked wires. For example, don't stack 8-gauge wires on a small sheet metal screw. (There are other situations in audio system wiring where stacked grounds can cause problems - it will work electrically but can cause noise in the system.)
#4. Same as above, you can attach the ground anywhere that has sufficient metal contact for the current flow. Contacting plastic is not a problem as long as the plastic isn't preventing current flow by insulating the connection. There is no significant heat generated unless the wire is too small for the amount of current so you don't have to worry about the ground wire melting the plastic.
There is a great online tutorial for the basics of electrical and electronics at Basic Car Audio Electronics.
#2, #3. You can stack grounds on the same bolt as long as the bolt/ring is large enough to handle the combined current of the stacked wires. For example, don't stack 8-gauge wires on a small sheet metal screw. (There are other situations in audio system wiring where stacked grounds can cause problems - it will work electrically but can cause noise in the system.)
#4. Same as above, you can attach the ground anywhere that has sufficient metal contact for the current flow. Contacting plastic is not a problem as long as the plastic isn't preventing current flow by insulating the connection. There is no significant heat generated unless the wire is too small for the amount of current so you don't have to worry about the ground wire melting the plastic.
There is a great online tutorial for the basics of electrical and electronics at Basic Car Audio Electronics.
Last edited by WhiteBird00; 08-20-2010 at 07:53 AM.
08-20-2010, 10:44 AM
#3
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i had a pretty intense system in my car and noticed 0 change with the big 3 upgrade. i personally believe it's one of those mods that's only going to work in a few cases where the stock wiring has some type of unusual problem, or it's completely mental in 90% of the scenarios.
point is, i wouldn't go above and beyond to create the best big 3 upgrade ever, because i think you're not going to experience any better results than a simple upgrade or possibly even no upgrade at all.
i think the best thing to do is simply upgrade the ground wire for the battery. i'd say that's probably 95% of what affects the results (if any) of the big 3 upgrade.
point is, i wouldn't go above and beyond to create the best big 3 upgrade ever, because i think you're not going to experience any better results than a simple upgrade or possibly even no upgrade at all.
i think the best thing to do is simply upgrade the ground wire for the battery. i'd say that's probably 95% of what affects the results (if any) of the big 3 upgrade.
08-27-2010, 07:34 AM
#5
Now, if you put in a big audio system and/or a lot of electrical accessories then you would increase the current demand. In that case, the increased demand could be more than the stock alternator and wiring can handle so both the alternator and cables should be upgraded.
08-27-2010, 02:54 PM
#6
This is not necessarily true. The amount of current flow is determined by the loads attached to the system not the supply. Alternators do not push current, they supply current to meet the demands of the electrical system. You could put a 1000 amp alternator on a stock vehicle and it would not need heavier wiring because the stock system wouldn't draw any more current than it always had.
Now, if you put in a big audio system and/or a lot of electrical accessories then you would increase the current demand. In that case, the increased demand could be more than the stock alternator and wiring can handle so both the alternator and cables should be upgraded.
Now, if you put in a big audio system and/or a lot of electrical accessories then you would increase the current demand. In that case, the increased demand could be more than the stock alternator and wiring can handle so both the alternator and cables should be upgraded.
08-27-2010, 03:02 PM
#7
Actually, in my case, I upgraded to a 200 amp alternator because I wanted idle speed output not because of any added demand. I wanted to not discharge the battery while sitting in typical afternoon traffic in Florida - lights, wipers, air confitioning all on at the same time and not moving.
There was no need for me to change the wiring because the maximum current flow wasn't changing - it was just happening at lower RPM.
There was no need for me to change the wiring because the maximum current flow wasn't changing - it was just happening at lower RPM.
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08-27-2010, 05:36 PM
#9
It's an A4 so bumping the idle wouldn't be my first choice - especially since the stock alterntor isn't producing enough current until about 800 rpm. Besides, I got permission to buy the alternator from "she who must be obeyed" and I wasn't about to let that opportunity pass.
08-27-2010, 07:52 PM
#10
hey i got another question for you guys.
i cannot for the life of me find a bolt that will fit the location between the alternator and the motor mount for the ground strap that goes between the block and the chassis on the driver side.
1. can i mount the ground to that little bracket that comes off of the back of the alternator since that contacts the block?
2. would it being "indirectly" (i guess) connected to the alternator screw with the electrical system and cause problems?
of course i would make sure that the strap stays out of the way of the serpentine belt and the headers.
i cannot for the life of me find a bolt that will fit the location between the alternator and the motor mount for the ground strap that goes between the block and the chassis on the driver side.
1. can i mount the ground to that little bracket that comes off of the back of the alternator since that contacts the block?
2. would it being "indirectly" (i guess) connected to the alternator screw with the electrical system and cause problems?
of course i would make sure that the strap stays out of the way of the serpentine belt and the headers.
08-28-2010, 04:14 AM
#12
for the block to chassis ground on the driver side, i am trying to find a place to attach the ground strap to the block.
i cannot find a bolt that fits the hole between the alternator and the motor mount.
thanks for any help in advance.
i cannot find a bolt that fits the hole between the alternator and the motor mount.
thanks for any help in advance.
09-16-2010, 02:25 AM
#17
to answer my own question lol, moving the ring terminal to where the small alternator bracket connects to the block wont screw anything up.
for anyone who may be interested i just did a big 5 ( big 3 plus leftover wire turned itself into the big 5) and my measurements were:
from the negative battery post to the passenger side of the chassis between the shock and the battery itself, i used 27 inches of 0 gauge power wire.
from the negative battery post to the spot on an iron 6.0 block between the starter and the a/c compressor, i used 3 feet of 0 gauge power wire. i had to bend my ring terminal a little bit to make this fit. a picture is below for clarification.
to replace the ground strap between block and the chassis on the driver's side, i used 18.5 inches of 0 gauge power wire. i removed the small bracket on the alternator and used that bolt hole as my block connection and used one of the two bolt holes to the right of the ABS bracket as my chassis connection. the picture below is for clarification. the two bolt holes circled in black are the ones that can be used. they are the same thread and pitch as the ABS bracket bolts, so if you need a bolt, just remove one from the ABS bracket and take that to the hardware store to get yourself set up.
from the back of the alternator to the positive battery post, i used 55 inches of 0 gauge power wire.
if you have leftover power wire, like i did, u could make another ground connection between the negative battery post and a post inside of the bumper area as shown in the pictures below. i don't think that you have to have your bumper removed to make this connection but I am not positive.
i hope this helps someone in the future.
for anyone who may be interested i just did a big 5 ( big 3 plus leftover wire turned itself into the big 5) and my measurements were:
from the negative battery post to the passenger side of the chassis between the shock and the battery itself, i used 27 inches of 0 gauge power wire.
from the negative battery post to the spot on an iron 6.0 block between the starter and the a/c compressor, i used 3 feet of 0 gauge power wire. i had to bend my ring terminal a little bit to make this fit. a picture is below for clarification.
to replace the ground strap between block and the chassis on the driver's side, i used 18.5 inches of 0 gauge power wire. i removed the small bracket on the alternator and used that bolt hole as my block connection and used one of the two bolt holes to the right of the ABS bracket as my chassis connection. the picture below is for clarification. the two bolt holes circled in black are the ones that can be used. they are the same thread and pitch as the ABS bracket bolts, so if you need a bolt, just remove one from the ABS bracket and take that to the hardware store to get yourself set up.
from the back of the alternator to the positive battery post, i used 55 inches of 0 gauge power wire.
if you have leftover power wire, like i did, u could make another ground connection between the negative battery post and a post inside of the bumper area as shown in the pictures below. i don't think that you have to have your bumper removed to make this connection but I am not positive.
i hope this helps someone in the future.
