Need help with stereo selection
07-11-2011, 02:09 PM
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Need help with stereo selection I have the Monsoon system with a tape deck HU and 12 disc changer in the rear. The changer does not read discs, the mid range speaker in the driver's door is shot, and the sub in the driver's sail panel is shot. So, I am considering replacing the entire setup. I've used Alpine in the past and really liked their products so here's what I am considering:
HU: Alpine iDA-X305S (Or CDA-117 or CDE-123)
Changer: Alpine CHA S634
Front: Alpine SPS-610C
Middle: CDT CL-6MSUB
Rear: Alpine SPS-410
Will all of this fit? Will it all work together well?
Where I am lost is with the amp. I really don't know squat about amps...or most other stereo components. Is the factory amp good enough or does that have to be changed too? If so, to what?
HU: Alpine iDA-X305S (Or CDA-117 or CDE-123)
Changer: Alpine CHA S634
Front: Alpine SPS-610C
Middle: CDT CL-6MSUB
Rear: Alpine SPS-410
Will all of this fit? Will it all work together well?
Where I am lost is with the amp. I really don't know squat about amps...or most other stereo components. Is the factory amp good enough or does that have to be changed too? If so, to what?
07-11-2011, 04:37 PM
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If you like Alpine, go for it. Should sound very nice.
I think for your purposes, a JL XD600/6 would be perfect. Powerful, clean, relatively simple, and well matched for the application.
You don't "need" an amp, you can run everything off the stock monsoon amp just fine. (Assuming you have a camaro and aren't putting an SVC cone in the sail panels of a firebird). But you'll definitely notice the difference in power and get the most out of your speakers if you upgrade. You could opt to put the amp in later and just do the HU and speakers at first, but you'll be duplicating some effort later on putting in home runs of speaker wire to your new amp location, and pulling your HU out again to run RCA cables, etc. If it was me, I'd prefer to do it all at once.
I think for your purposes, a JL XD600/6 would be perfect. Powerful, clean, relatively simple, and well matched for the application.
You don't "need" an amp, you can run everything off the stock monsoon amp just fine. (Assuming you have a camaro and aren't putting an SVC cone in the sail panels of a firebird). But you'll definitely notice the difference in power and get the most out of your speakers if you upgrade. You could opt to put the amp in later and just do the HU and speakers at first, but you'll be duplicating some effort later on putting in home runs of speaker wire to your new amp location, and pulling your HU out again to run RCA cables, etc. If it was me, I'd prefer to do it all at once.
07-11-2011, 05:45 PM
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This is for a 2001 Camaro. I'm not looking to blow out the windows or rattle the car next to me either. I just want a system that thumps just enough for me to enjoy.
In addition to the amp issue...I previously owned a '95 Camaro with a Bose system (same thing?). I installed an Alpine HU which was great except that I could only use volume levels 1-3 out of 36. I never really understood why the volume cranked up so high so fast, but I do know that I don't want to be in that situation again.
Any ideas of what would cause this and how to prevent it in the new system?
In addition to the amp issue...I previously owned a '95 Camaro with a Bose system (same thing?). I installed an Alpine HU which was great except that I could only use volume levels 1-3 out of 36. I never really understood why the volume cranked up so high so fast, but I do know that I don't want to be in that situation again.
Any ideas of what would cause this and how to prevent it in the new system?
07-12-2011, 09:33 AM
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Bose tends to do things that other vendors do not, like use very low impedance speakers, use individual amps at each speaker location, and act as an integral part of other systems doing things besides audio. I don't know the particulars of the system in a 95, but in general, replacing a Bose system is always a pain in the *** and requires more hardware and effort.
Replacing a monsoon system, as noted in the FAQ, is fairly straightforward and doesn't require anything out of the ordinary. Your Alpine HU probably has an SLA (signal level adjustment) control and the JL amp I mentioned has RCA level input adjustment dials, so you should be able to a very high degree of control over the volume levels. The JL website FAQ has a little how-to on setting it up.
Replacing a monsoon system, as noted in the FAQ, is fairly straightforward and doesn't require anything out of the ordinary. Your Alpine HU probably has an SLA (signal level adjustment) control and the JL amp I mentioned has RCA level input adjustment dials, so you should be able to a very high degree of control over the volume levels. The JL website FAQ has a little how-to on setting it up.
Last edited by Capricio; 07-12-2011 at 09:35 AM. Reason: RCA instead of line
07-12-2011, 09:53 AM
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I'm still trying to wrap my brain around all of this so please bare with me.
I'm having difficulty selecting the front speakers because of the need for a 4 pin connection used on the stock system. However, I am planning to go with an Alpine CDA-117 head unit, so do I really have to worry about the 4 pin connection? Can I use standard coaxials instead?
I am seeing the need to basically replace the entire setup, but due to the cost of it all, I will likely be doing this in 2 or 3 steps. It will add some duplicated effort, but I'm okay with that.
This is good news. I really liked the system in my '95 but the lack of volume control was very difficult to live with.
I'm having difficulty selecting the front speakers because of the need for a 4 pin connection used on the stock system. However, I am planning to go with an Alpine CDA-117 head unit, so do I really have to worry about the 4 pin connection? Can I use standard coaxials instead?
I am seeing the need to basically replace the entire setup, but due to the cost of it all, I will likely be doing this in 2 or 3 steps. It will add some duplicated effort, but I'm okay with that.
Bose tends to do things that other vendors do not, like use very low impedance speakers, use individual amps at each speaker location, and act as an integral part of other systems doing things besides audio. I don't know the particulars of the system in a 95, but in general, replacing a Bose system is always a pain in the *** and requires more hardware and effort.
Replacing a monsoon system, as noted in the FAQ, is fairly straightforward and doesn't require anything out of the ordinary. Your Alpine HU probably has an SLA (signal level adjustment) control and the JL amp I mentioned has RCA level input adjustment dials, so you should be able to a very high degree of control over the volume levels. The JL website FAQ has a little how-to on setting it up.
Replacing a monsoon system, as noted in the FAQ, is fairly straightforward and doesn't require anything out of the ordinary. Your Alpine HU probably has an SLA (signal level adjustment) control and the JL amp I mentioned has RCA level input adjustment dials, so you should be able to a very high degree of control over the volume levels. The JL website FAQ has a little how-to on setting it up.
07-12-2011, 10:55 AM
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Since you have a camaro, you'll want a convertible set of 6.5" component speakers. I didn't realize you had a camaro in the first post. With camaros, even though the door speakers are components, the tweeter is mounted inside the woofer cone LIKE a coaxial, but the tweeter is driven separately so it is a true component speaker. I don't know that Alpine even makes a braxial (bracket mounted tweeter) or convertible component set-up. Do a search on "braxial" or "convertible component 6.5 speaker" and you'll find a few options. I used Ian's CDT CV61s and they are very good.
The HU you choose has pretty much nothing to do with the speakers or how you will wire them. What 4-pin connector are you talking about? something on the camaro door speaker? If so, it's just matter of separating the pairs and running one to drive the tweeter and one to drive the woofer. If you use the monsoon amp, do not use any external crossover module that comes with the component speakers, because the monsoon amp does the frequency separation internally. If you use an external amp like the JL, then you will need them.
Make sense?
The HU you choose has pretty much nothing to do with the speakers or how you will wire them. What 4-pin connector are you talking about? something on the camaro door speaker? If so, it's just matter of separating the pairs and running one to drive the tweeter and one to drive the woofer. If you use the monsoon amp, do not use any external crossover module that comes with the component speakers, because the monsoon amp does the frequency separation internally. If you use an external amp like the JL, then you will need them.
Make sense?
07-12-2011, 11:38 AM
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Since you have a camaro, you'll want a convertible set of 6.5" component speakers. I didn't realize you had a camaro in the first post. With camaros, even though the door speakers are components, the tweeter is mounted inside the woofer cone LIKE a coaxial, but the tweeter is driven separately so it is a true component speaker. I don't know that Alpine even makes a braxial (bracket mounted tweeter) or convertible component set-up. Do a search on "braxial" or "convertible component 6.5 speaker" and you'll find a few options. I used Ian's CDT CV61s and they are very good.
The HU you choose has pretty much nothing to do with the speakers or how you will wire them. What 4-pin connector are you talking about? something on the camaro door speaker? If so, it's just matter of separating the pairs and running one to drive the tweeter and one to drive the woofer. If you use the monsoon amp, do not use any external crossover module that comes with the component speakers, because the monsoon amp does the frequency separation internally. If you use an external amp like the JL, then you will need them.
Make sense?
The HU you choose has pretty much nothing to do with the speakers or how you will wire them. What 4-pin connector are you talking about? something on the camaro door speaker? If so, it's just matter of separating the pairs and running one to drive the tweeter and one to drive the woofer. If you use the monsoon amp, do not use any external crossover module that comes with the component speakers, because the monsoon amp does the frequency separation internally. If you use an external amp like the JL, then you will need them.
Make sense?
I am still a bit confused on the wiring of the speakers. The HU that I am looking at (CDA-117) has outputs in the main wire bundle to power four speakers (2 front, 2 rear). It also has 3 RCA outputs for amps (front, rear, sub). How exactly does all of this get connected? Do the wired outputs connect to the tweeters and the RCA outputs connect to the rest of it? Should I also be looking into replacing the amp too?
Normally, I would just go to an audio store to clear all of this up, but it seems that ALL of them have closed up over the past 2 years. The only thing left around here is Best Buy.
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07-12-2011, 12:08 PM
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You only need the RCA outputs if you run an aftermarket amp, like the JL I mentioned.
The amplified output to drive speakers from the HU all go back to the Monsoon amp by the spare tire. The Monsoon amp has a built-in LOC (Line Out Conditioner) that damps the speaker level signal as input then amplifies it again. For all intents and purposes, your HU is driving speaker level output to the Monsoon amp, and it takes care of the rest. (actually, the tweeter outputs are left alone, but don't want get caught in the weeds here) All you have to do is make a little wiring harness adapter with some butt crimp connectors (can do this at your coffee table inside), mate the GM mounting kit piece to the piece that comes with your new HU, plug it in, and you're done. You do not need to worry about wiring any paths between the HU and the speakers, the factory wiring already in place takes care of everything.
alternatively, if you want to use a bigger, better aftermarket amp... Then you need run RCAs from the HU to the new amp, and home run speaker wire from each cone to the new amp. You can leave all the other HU wiring in place if you want. The monsoon amp will continue to get speaker level input from the HU but won't drive any cones anymore. The new amp will rely soley on RCA inputs.
In my car, I started with just an HU, then I replaced the door speakers, then the sail panel subs. Then I put in a 10" stealth sub in the hatch cubby with a monoblock amp. I ran all 3 pairs of RCAs at the same time so I wouldn't have to do it again later.
When I finally bought external amps for all the factory channels, it was a big job to run new speaker wire everywhere and get an amp rack, distro blocks, etc, take the doors apart AGAIN...
If you have the money, do it all at once. If you need to prioritize, go with an HU first, then door speakers, then sail panels, then hatch speakers, then an aftermarket amp for the other channels. There is no point to having a big amp in place if you don't have speakers that can benefit from it already in place.
If you want to dip your toe in the water, just get a nice HU and you'll get a huge improvement from that alone.
The amplified output to drive speakers from the HU all go back to the Monsoon amp by the spare tire. The Monsoon amp has a built-in LOC (Line Out Conditioner) that damps the speaker level signal as input then amplifies it again. For all intents and purposes, your HU is driving speaker level output to the Monsoon amp, and it takes care of the rest. (actually, the tweeter outputs are left alone, but don't want get caught in the weeds here) All you have to do is make a little wiring harness adapter with some butt crimp connectors (can do this at your coffee table inside), mate the GM mounting kit piece to the piece that comes with your new HU, plug it in, and you're done. You do not need to worry about wiring any paths between the HU and the speakers, the factory wiring already in place takes care of everything.
alternatively, if you want to use a bigger, better aftermarket amp... Then you need run RCAs from the HU to the new amp, and home run speaker wire from each cone to the new amp. You can leave all the other HU wiring in place if you want. The monsoon amp will continue to get speaker level input from the HU but won't drive any cones anymore. The new amp will rely soley on RCA inputs.
In my car, I started with just an HU, then I replaced the door speakers, then the sail panel subs. Then I put in a 10" stealth sub in the hatch cubby with a monoblock amp. I ran all 3 pairs of RCAs at the same time so I wouldn't have to do it again later.
When I finally bought external amps for all the factory channels, it was a big job to run new speaker wire everywhere and get an amp rack, distro blocks, etc, take the doors apart AGAIN...
If you have the money, do it all at once. If you need to prioritize, go with an HU first, then door speakers, then sail panels, then hatch speakers, then an aftermarket amp for the other channels. There is no point to having a big amp in place if you don't have speakers that can benefit from it already in place.
If you want to dip your toe in the water, just get a nice HU and you'll get a huge improvement from that alone.
07-12-2011, 12:29 PM
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I would normally want to attack this whole project as you described, but 2 of my speakers are shot which makes the whole system unlistenable. The speaker in the driver's door and driver's sail panel are shot. I would like to replace those first, but I am taking this all from an opportunistic approach. In other words, if I can find a good deal on a component that I want, I'll take it.
So, from what you are saying the Monsoon amp should be good enough to power what I am looking to do. And by using the Monsoon amp, I will not need to use the RCA jacks on the HU? Everything will be powered through the connections on the main wire bundle going to the Monsoon amp and the amp will take care of the rest? If so, that relieves a lot of my concerns. All that really leaves me is the selection of speakers that fit.
So, from what you are saying the Monsoon amp should be good enough to power what I am looking to do. And by using the Monsoon amp, I will not need to use the RCA jacks on the HU? Everything will be powered through the connections on the main wire bundle going to the Monsoon amp and the amp will take care of the rest? If so, that relieves a lot of my concerns. All that really leaves me is the selection of speakers that fit.
07-12-2011, 01:00 PM
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"yes" to all your questions.
Not too many companies make convertible components... MB Quart, CDT, Cerwin-Vega, Powerbass, maybe Rainbow...
Not trying to steer you around but the CDTs are nice and go right in, with good reviews all over this forum.
Not too many companies make convertible components... MB Quart, CDT, Cerwin-Vega, Powerbass, maybe Rainbow...
Not trying to steer you around but the CDTs are nice and go right in, with good reviews all over this forum.
07-12-2011, 01:05 PM
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First, I do want to thank you for your input. I have a much better understanding of what is going with this system and what my workload will be in getting things up and running.
While I do like Alpine, it appears that I will be going with the CDT system. I never heard of them before so I was (still kinda am) skeptical about their quality. However, it seems to be used and approved by many on this forum.
I see that CDT offers component "coaxial" and braxial speakers. Is there a benefit to one or the other?
While I do like Alpine, it appears that I will be going with the CDT system. I never heard of them before so I was (still kinda am) skeptical about their quality. However, it seems to be used and approved by many on this forum.
I see that CDT offers component "coaxial" and braxial speakers. Is there a benefit to one or the other?
07-12-2011, 02:24 PM
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Braxial can be aimed upward towards your head, I suppose, more so than coaxial. Coaxial, the tweeter (on the center axis) points straight in towards your ankles. I don't know that you'd notice a huge difference given the kick panel positioning, either way.
CDT is a smaller brand but I'd rate them a full step above most brands you find in big box stores (Pioneer, Kenwood, even Alpine, talking about speakers only), and a half step below "elite" brands like focal. They are a very good value buy, and even their lower tier models are excellent sounding, even when they use cheaper materials than the high end ones.
CDT is a smaller brand but I'd rate them a full step above most brands you find in big box stores (Pioneer, Kenwood, even Alpine, talking about speakers only), and a half step below "elite" brands like focal. They are a very good value buy, and even their lower tier models are excellent sounding, even when they use cheaper materials than the high end ones.
07-12-2011, 03:14 PM
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...also, be aware of how much the tweeter extends past the plane of the woofer with a braxial. I've never actually used one. Make sure the screen on your door will not press against it. The coaxials are well proven for the application, I'd stick with them.
